phc-discussions - Re: [PHC] How to: A super-efficient cryptographic accumulator?

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Message-ID: <CAJ9ii1FaMkDOWtK6nkXJSO=TTNXy9KKwaRWV5u63sQawALnAtg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 16:22:33 -0400
From: Matt Weir <cweir@...edu>
To: discussions@...sword-hashing.net
Subject: Re: [PHC] How to: A super-efficient cryptographic accumulator?

Thanks for the link Solar, as I was missing a lot of the context about
the question.

As Solar mentioned, if you are accepting of false positives then the
Bloom Filter is likely the closest realistic approach you could take
with limited disk space.

If you want to avoid false positives, you could look at encoding the
data as a non-deterministic finite automaton (NFA).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondeterministic_finite_automaton

You will also have better luck compressing the data if you operate off
plaintexts vs the Sha1 hashes. Aka compressing random data ... doesn't
work too well. Still, NFAs aren't magic. For a 500 million input list,
even an optimized NFA will be significantly larger than a bloom filter
with a reasonable false positive rate.

Matt

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:21 PM, Solar Designer <solar@...nwall.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 06:24:33AM -0500, denis bider wrote:
>> What I am looking for would be exactly like a Bloom filter in concept, but
>> with:
>>
>> - radically less memory use;
>>
>> - computational cost could be increased by orders of magnitude to construct
>> the filter;
>>
>> - but the computational cost of using it should remain reasonable.
>>
>> Is anyone aware of any work involving such tradeoffs?
>>
>> And if not, where would be the right place to ask this question? Would the
>> "passwords" list be any more likely to have this answer? :-)
>
> I wouldn't expect the "passwords" list to be any more likely to have the
> answer, but feel free to try asking in there as well, if you include
> your explanation of the use case relevant to passwords and perhaps refer
> to this thread for what's already been discussed.  You can refer to this
> thread via:
>
> http://lists.openwall.net/phc-discussions/2018/03/13/
>
> (The thread is broken in a few places perhaps because some of the
> messages were off-list, hence linking to the day rather than the thread.)
>
> Alexander