From: aliver at xexil.com (aliver@...il.com)
Subject: NY State of Mind ;)

On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, sockz loves you wrote:
> Hi fad3r.
> your email made me laff lotz.  :)
> but it also made me sad in places.  :(

Hey there sockz. I think that we are very likely dealing with the same
individual as "fuk@...hmail.com". If not, then he's the same kind of
fella. I see the same patterns. Too much testosterone coming out in the
references to physical violence and "getting laid". Next he'll likely be
making personal attacks and talking in pseudo-gibberish with bad
formatting.

> misinformed people will say that capitalism is every- thing communism is
> not, and that if you dont like capitalism then you must be a communist.

These days the term "communist" has fallen out of fashion. They usually
call you a "terrorist" now.

> i thought long and hard about how to present this whole argument in a
> clear and concise manner that ppl with no understanding of politics
> could grasp.

A noble effort, but I think you put too much faith in this guy's ability
to understand and willingness to comprehend. After all, this is someone
who wishes he could just beat up the people he disagrees with.

> and 'capitalism is part of freedom'?  hahahah. please...


> A.  of course the entire thing will prolly be palmed off as
> "anti-american propaganda", and my point will be lost, but hey, you get
> that.

I agree with you on a few points, and I think a few others (like the part
about capitalism causing repression) is a bit oversimplified. However, you
may have been attempting to compensate for your audience. In this case, I
can understand. I'd expand what you said to say that corporatism, greed,
and individual selfish ignorance is what results in much repression. In
today's terms that often is synonymous with capitalism. However, that
wasn't the founding fathers intention, and today's system and set of laws
can be effectively seen as a "patch" to circumvent the vision that
Jefferson and others tried to materialize. Microsoft, for example,
obviously has a very hard time with the concept of "a fair field with no
favors". We have tons of laws like the DCMA and other which effectively
bypass the original intention of the bill of rights, and have the effect of
a cigarette lighter under the intention preamble (yes, I realize that
isn't law, but it's the _spirit_ that we've lost).
	What I think is ironic, is that often times hackers are
classically liberal folks who understand the real spirit of the founding
father's vision. They are disillusioned with our current system of greed
and repression. Those of us who have ethics, might even be willing to
stand up for them in the face of laws and corporate "ethics" that say "you
no come here! irregal!"

> > B)  They also seem to be whining about the term hacker.  We hack you hack
> > I hack.  Who cares?  So the whitehats are security professionals.  Does
> > the definition of a word mean so much you whine and complain like little
> > kids?  Silly rabbit TRIX are for kids ;)
> cute.  almost as cute and silly as whitehats who call themselves hackers.
> kinda like a 4yo child saying "i'm a doctor".

Oh yeah. It's clear that the term "hacker" is something that whitehats
hate to try to unequivocate with their own lifestyle, skills, and
"ethics". Tell a person that he's acting like a whitehat and not a hacker
and he get's pissed pretty fast. I think it's because they care so much
about their image that they want to be able to tell others (usually
non-technical folks) that they are hackers and invoke some kind of
mystique or respect associated with the term.

> > C)  I live in NYC and I would be happy to find a vacant parking
> > lot where we can all gather and beat the shit out of each other.
> that'd be cool.  let me know when you do organise something like that,
> i'll bring some friends along and we can beat the shit out of each other
> together.

RUMBLE IN THE BRONX. Sorry, I had to say that. Anyway, I don't think I'd
be up for that. Aside from being a hell of a long way from New York, I'm
pretty sure that non-coding, self-important, jerkish meathead whitehats
outnumber folks like me 100 to 1 (at least). Whoa. I just got a weird
vision of the old 70's flick "The Warriors". Remember that.. ?

[snip inane comment about strippers + more "getting laid" crap]
> dunno if this is what you call fun but i kinda grew out of that shit
> when i was 15.  perhaps this explains fundamental differences between
> the way you and i think about the world.

Yeah, I think you are right. This dude's mentality that the world revolves
around being a "tough guy" and "getting laid" pretty much says it all.
Next I'm expecting some flames back about how skinny-wussies like me (or
maybe he'll flame, you this time, I dunno) are too busy living at home
with their mother, flipping burgers, quaking in fear at his threats, and
wishing we could "get laid".

> > At the very least this should lower the testosterone level of
> > his list.

It's funny that he says this after all the references to sex and violence.
WTF ever.

> heh, i can think of a million other ways, but a lot of them involve
> "your mother" jokes, and as amusing as that is for a nanosecond, i cant
> be bothered to be that pathetic.

Well, when you get some flame back and comments about how "he spanked you"
and how the next time will be "far more RUTHLESSLY", you can rest assured
that I, for one, won't be paying much attention. You last comment about
not being "bothered to be that pathetic" is just about spot-on.

> > love fad3r ;)
> okay yeah no thanks

Yep, count me outta that group hug as well.

aliver

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