From: barrie at reboot-robot.net (Barrie Dempster)
Subject: FW: Shadowcrew Grand Jury Indictment

On Wed, 2004-11-17 at 23:19 +0000, n3td3v wrote:
<snip>
> Imagine a child abuse site which also kept a score board of the
> biggest amount of child porn photo posters. Yet again we move onto
> malicious hacker online crimes, it seems to be different for zone-h to
> keep scores of the biggest malicious hacker defacement posters.
> 
> Why one rule for one online crime promotion site and not the same rule
> for another online crime promotion site? I guess you would allow a
> child porn promotion site, like you think its ok for zone-h to be
> online promoting online malicious hacking and not closed down.
<snip>

Because child abuse is always a crime.
Hacking skills and knowledge can be used for crime and can be used for
the protection of a businesses assets.

Same reason there are lock picking books and websites, people often need
their locks picked legitimately but there are thieves that use it
illegitimately.
Can you give me an example of a legitimate use of child abuse and
pornographic images of children ?
I doubt it.

Most tools can be used as effective weapons, but you can't punish the
carpenter because a murderer killed someone with a hammer.
Or should we start punishing the following people...

Doctors - They are teach each other how people die ! CRIMINALS!
Butchers - They teach each other how to chop people up ! CRIMINALS!
Pilots - Remember 9/11? they can kills people with their planes ! CRIMINALS!
Drivers - They know how to run people over with machinery ! CRIMINALS!

I don't want to live in your totalitarian society where doctors can't treat people because their knowledge is illegal

In a country with even a pretence of freedom people must be allowed to
share their knowledge in order for the society to survive and grow,
however morals and ethics must be taught, doctors teach their
pupils to save lives, pilots teach theirs not to fly
into buildings, hackers teach there's not to harm the community.

Knowledge and Ethics are two entirely different things, I know how to
poison someone, but it doesn't make
me a poisoner it does however give me the skills necessary to recognise
that someone has been poisoned and possibly help them out, which with my
current standards of ethics is probably what I'd do.

It was the free sharing of information that allowed the development of
TCP/IP, SMTP, Ethernet and many other protocols, without these your
message would never have made it to me and the other people on the other
side of the world, these technologies were designed and maintained by
hackers, if you prevent them from learning you prevent the world from
achieving goals such as this.

However since shadowcrew are in the subject line of this message, I'll address that issue. They were criminals and most of their crimes didn't actually take much hacker knowledge.
Aren't you glad the US DOJ had the hacker skills to investigate and catch them, I sure am. Unless you think they were investigated entirely without the use of any computer skills.

With Regards.

Barrie Dempster (zeedo) - Fortiter et Strenue

  http://www.bsrf.org.uk

[ gpg --recv-keys --keyserver www.keyserver.net 0x96025FD0 ]




Barrie Dempster (zeedo) - Fortiter et Strenue

  http://www.bsrf.org.uk

[ gpg --recv-keys --keyserver www.keyserver.net 0x96025FD0 ]



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