Date: Tue Jan 17 21:14:28 2006
From: y0himba at technolounge.org (y0himba)
Subject: Secure Delete for Windows

First, thanks to all who post valid security information to this list, and
to those who engage in valid, on-topic discussions.  I am not any where near
as intelligent as most of you, but I am learning quite a bit.

IMHO I don't think the list should be used for advertising a product.
Besides there are many freeware alternatives that offer the same
functionality and more features.  Any flames will not be responded to.  I
have said my piece and I am done.  Back to full disclosure.

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of Yvan Boily
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:06 PM
To: sk
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Secure Delete for Windows

On 1/17/06, sk <sk@...undzero-security.com> wrote:
> thank you for the constructive feedback. at least it was usefull and 
> not just some random flame. i do appriciate your comment, i dont agree 
> with some points though. it may be the default business strategy, but 
> if a single person (or a handfull) think they have to complain that i 
> announce a security application here, i do argue about it. then again, 
> i should better ignore such random bullshit as there will be always 
> some smart ass who thinks he has to post a negative and senseless comment.
>
> > I guess you only consider orders useful.  I wonder how you respond 
> > to complaints about bugs?
>
> i'd appriciate it as then we can make the software more stable. thats only
good.

Considering how rabid the response to even mild criticism was, I would have
issues believing that feedback would be recieved with open arms.

> > Remember! Swearing at your customers shows them who's boss!
> done with sarcasm ?

The entire section before the --- was sarcastic.

> > ** this is not an endorsement or support of any community members, 
> > but rather an observation that it is typical business practice to 
> > treat even the most annoying potential customer with respect.
>
> i know that those arent even potential customers so thats why. a real 
> customer, of course, will receive a friendly response.

GroundZero Security (email account at least) was using the same channel to
blast critics as was used to market the product.  This is extremely
unprofessional.

If an organization is going to spam a mailing list, it would be wise to
treat ever member of that mailing list with respect, and certainly not tell
users to 'stfu'.  That is just stupid.

Just a thought.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yvan Boily" <yboily@...il.com>
> To: "GroundZero Security" <fd@....org>
> Cc: <virus@...og.org>; <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Secure Delete for Windows
>
>
> > Now for the lesson on business communication:
> >
> > 1. Dealing with open source proponents:
> > > also not everyone posts their source so what is your fucking problem?!
> >
> > 2. Elliciting positive feedback:
> > > my god if you dont have anything usefull to say, then why dont you 
> > > stfu.
> >
> > 3. Commenting on community members**:
> > > it seems suddenly after this n3td0rk shit, everyone starts his own 
> > > little flame wars over nothing
> >
> > Remember! Swearing at your customers shows them who's boss!
> >
> > ---
> >
> > I guess you only consider orders useful.  I wonder how you respond 
> > to complaints about bugs?
> >
> > Just a note; if you are going to market your product to people try 
> > to avoid making a negative impression!  And certainly, reply to 
> > people individually as you will, but if you are going to blast 
> > someone then do it privately.  I know this is not really my nature, 
> > but then again, I am not marketing products!
> >
> > ** this is not an endorsement or support of any community members, 
> > but rather an observation that it is typical business practice to 
> > treat even the most annoying potential customer with respect.
> >
>


--
____
ygjb
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about
telescopes. E. W. Dijkstra _______________________________________________
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