Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:02:57 +0200
From: "James Matthews" <nytrokiss@...il.com>
To: "Mike Diack" <mike_diack@...mail.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9

I agree however some leway has to be given for current events.

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 5:32 PM, Mike Diack <mike_diack@...mail.com> wrote:

> Take this to a political / middle eastern mailing list.
> Let's get back to topic.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
> [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of
> full-disclosure-request@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Sent: 05 January 2009 12:00
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Subject: Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9
>
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> Note to digest recipients - when replying to digest posts, please trim your
> post appropriately. Thank you.
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: The war in Palestine (Prototype This)
>   2. Re: The war in Palestine (chort)
>   3. Re: CCIE makes u go nuts?? or is that only nuts   get CCIE????
>      (Some Guy Posting To Full Disclosure)
>   4. Re: The war in Palestine (j-f sentier)
>   5. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
>   6. Re: The (net)war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
>   7. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
>   8. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
>   9. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
>  10. Re: The war in Palestine (Paul Schmehl)
>  11. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
>  12. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
>  13. Re: The war in Palestine (- o z -)
>  14. Re: The war in Palestine (Avraham Schneider)
>  15. Re: The war in Palestine (Yudi Rosen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:41:43 +0000
> From: "Prototype This" <terminale@...il.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu
> Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID:
>        <b3d67c1a0901041541v69e3dec9x6742e0d64ec22c3a@...l.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> A flame war never kill children and women. You dont receive a Flame email
> while you are sleeping or your 2 month old child get killed by it. If you
> dont want flame war you can always quit. With real war , you cannot. Even
> there no Mortar Filter or Bullet Catcher in real life.
> Personally i filter the n3tshit and ureleet email so i dont read their
> bullshit anymore. But tell me how could Palestinian do that (filter bomb
> from Isralis bomber to hit an hospital) ? 3000 victims and counting.
>
>
>
> 2009/1/4  <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:22:00 +0200, Avraham Schneider said:
> >> Not interested in continuing - was just responding to cheap
> >> propaganda started by an idiot.
> >
> > You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
> >
> > How do you expect the Israelis and Palestinians to stop a *real* war?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:50:59 -0800
> From: chort <chort0@...il.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: "Mainbox Notif" <rokadeana@...il.com>
> Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk,  Paul Schmehl
>        <pschmehl_lists_nada@...rr.com>
> Message-ID:
>        <2a66a350901041150p5854687dy4fab485d26ab4394@...l.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >  So, mr. Paul Schmehl,
> > Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After
> > they get a gift for their ppl?
> > Thats what frustrating me the most.
> > If you get something as a gift.  And still want to have more.
> > Thats not very thankful....
> > Israeli are still guests. And welcome.
> >
> > When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think again.
> >
> > Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround
> > them .  ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) .
>
> You mean like when the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and the IDF forcibly
> removed Jewish settlers, but then Palestinians continued to launch rockets
> and mortars any way?
>
> I'm not a fan of Israel, and I think a lot of the US problems with the
> Muslim population of the world are due to our policy towards Israel, but
> give me a freakin break.  You can't ridicule one side for spewing
> propaganda, then write stuff like that yourself.
>
> Also, for all those whining about civilian casualties in Gaza, yes they're
> tragic and highly regrettable.  On the other hand, if your enemy is putting
> rocket launchers and mortars in civilian buildings and firing them
> indiscriminately into civilian areas (not even _pretending_ to aim for
> military installations), how exactly would you respond without killing any
> civilians?  Put another way, if one side of a conflict intentionally
> surrounds it's weapons with civilians, should the other side just give up?
>
> --
> chort
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:28:44 +0000
> From: "Some Guy Posting To Full Disclosure" <fd.leach@...glemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] CCIE makes u go nuts?? or is that only
>        nuts    get CCIE????
> To: "Joel Jose" <joeljose420@...il.com>
> Cc: full-disclosure <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
> Message-ID:
>        <197321660901040428i7d708f5dx37cec88d8bcd7a5f@...l.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I don't get why this is news. Murder happens all the time.
>
> Has he even been found guilty yet? True it looks like it is, but just
> look at that news article! You can perve on some poor guys destruction
> because it makes great news. I remember this happened a few years back
> to someone else and the guy was found innocent, despite the way the
> news channels made it look.
>
> On 1/3/09, Joel Jose <joeljose420@...il.com> wrote:
> > http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/35713
> >
> > It scares the hell out of me..... when i read the topics...and try to
> > learn.... i cant help my mind and heart doubting...when will my name
> > come in a news like that...... maaannnn... 8 years in cisco... a voice
> > architect..... hmmmmm... i was wanting to become like that.... without
> > the twists that is... ;(... its scary....
> >
> >
> > lemme see ur responses....
> >
> >
> > Joel.
> > --
> > "it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your
> > years." Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >
>
>
> --
> I'm your best best friend.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:27:35 -0500
> From: "j-f sentier" <j.sentiar@...il.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID:
>        <6f80feaf0901042127p5ad20591ged48fa177d2a221c@...l.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Well Israel is a very young "nation",  in 61 years of existence, they have
> been in war with all of them neighborhood, Egypt, Syria, Liban,Jordan,
> Palestine.
>
> If someone can find an explication that makes sens, i'll take it.
>
> Also Mr pro-sionist (Avraham Schneider) i dont believe in god nowaday but
> i've readed the bible twice and the torah once, so i'm able to segfault
> your
> pro-sionist brain:
>
> "At least 178 Jews and persons of half- or three-quarters-Jewish ancestry
> have been awarded the Nobel Prize,1 accounting for 23% of all individual
> recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008, and constituting 37% of all US
> recipients2 during the same period. In the scientific research fields of
> Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US
> percentages are 27% and 40%, respectively. (Jews currently make up
> approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)
>
> Considering Jews are testifying to the existence of G-d - I would say it is
> hard to make your claim under these results..."
>
> Speaking of which god and religion: jewish says: God have elected,chosen
> the
> jewish people (it's written in the Torah.)
> Dont forget one thing, the jewish people were also banned and condemned by
> this very same god to have pain and
> no home for 2000 years.
>
> Because of what ? same thing here, you want always more than we give you.
> And even if some son of god would come on this earth one day, you (sionnist
> guys) wont be able to reconnize him or you would kill him again, because
> you
> always thought you we're more intelligent than anyone around (which is a
> fundamental mistake).
>
> Also once you're not happy on something you play the card of the second
> world war deportation at any times,
> but hey, you're not the belly-button of the world, dont forget that Gipsys,
> black people, gay, arab, and everything that didn't have blond hair and
> blue
> eyes were also killed, this is real history no propaganda.
>
> All this sionist story is pathetic,  they make more than one "land hold-up"
> in the front of the world and no one say nothing, because they're jew.
> Wassup if Iran (for example) was the investigator of this, and would have
> provided this very same excuse than tsahal did ?
> No of course  the occident wouldn't have let this happen or not on this
> tonality.
> it's pretty funny to see in many places in U-K some huge flag :
> "We support Israel."
> that remind me why they support so proudly israel :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
>
> Btw i'm not antisemite i like jews, i'm just anti-sionist :)
>
> Cheers
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:59:33 -0600
> From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID: <DF60E376FFD5914AC0D9AD6D@...intosh-2.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> --On January 4, 2009 4:44:57 AM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
> wrote:
>
> > They just want their country back. Thats all.
> > It seems that Israeli want to have more, and more. And more.
> > Israelis build settlements outside the borders of Israel.
> >
> > In History there where made some appointments which part belongs to the
> > Israeli and which to the Palestinian.
> > But it seems that the Israeli want more. Thats are not very thankful, he?
> > Please stay between your own borders!
> >
> > Thats what the Palestinians want.
> > And I can understand them. They have to fight back. I should do the same.
> >
>
> The Israelis were attacked by all their surrounding neighbors back in the
> 60's and they beat them all.  Since then they have been giving more and
> more ground to Palestine, yet the Palestinians continue to attack them.
> In 2005 they turned Gaza over to the Palestinians.  The thanks they got
> was thousands and thousands of rocket and mortar attacks.
>
> The Palestinians are *not* fighting back.  They are the aggressors.  No
> matter how much land Israel gives up, the Palestinians will continue to
> attack them, because their goal is to annihilate the country.
>
> Please stop acting as if the Palestinians are poor, innocent bystanders
> being attacked for no reason.  They are not.
>
> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
> obvious, my opinions are my own
> and not those of my employer.
> ******************************************
> WARNING: Check the headers before replying
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:18:49 -0600
> From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The (net)war in Palestine
> To: "Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)" <lists@...osecurity.ch>,
>        full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID: <EEF7D3B16CEC5F6CFE71812F@...intosh-2.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> --On January 4, 2009 10:27:19 AM -0600 "Fabio Pietrosanti (naif)"
> <lists@...osecurity.ch> wrote:
>
> >
> > Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote:
> >> Yeah, take all these crap out of a full-disclousure, IT security
> >> mailing list, please...
> > To keep the discussion on topic, what do you think about the israel
> > ability to professionaly arrange national-wide SMS spamming to border
> > countries?
> >
> > http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/2008/12/israeli-telephone-commandos-strike.
> > html
> >
>
> Interesting.  At the bottom of Paul's post there is a note.
>
> Note: There are no verifiable external resources listed to support this
> claim. -ferg
>
> IOW, this may or may not be true.
>
> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
> obvious, my opinions are my own
> and not those of my employer.
> ******************************************
> WARNING: Check the headers before replying
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:20:29 -0600
> From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Cc: Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman <buanzo@...nzo.com.ar>
> Message-ID: <000F0D008D5DC6ECB80F5E3C@...intosh-2.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> --On January 4, 2009 10:05:15 AM -0600 Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman
> <buanzo@...nzo.com.ar> wrote:
>
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA512
> >
> > The bloodshed is caused by idiot people, motherfuckers and things like
> > that. Stop the damn religion
> > of bein g an excuse for your country's desires, ok? Ig god existed, he'd
> > probably be thinking about
> > nuking the hell out of Earth.
> >
>
> God exists, but he doesn't need to think about doing this.  Mankind will
> do it for him.
>
> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
> obvious, my opinions are my own
> and not those of my employer.
> ******************************************
> WARNING: Check the headers before replying
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:05:18 -0600
> From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID: <D3B114099952429DF5D0CAAA@...intosh-2.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> --On January 4, 2009 4:18:52 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
> wrote:
>
> > [quote]
> >  Since then they have been giving more and more ground to Palestine (...)
> > [/quote]
> >
> > It seems that you don' t read the newspapers.
>
> That's correct.  I don't read newspapers.  Most of them lie more than they
> tell the truth.
>
> > Do you really know what is happening there?
>
> Well, I'm not there, so I'm sure I don't know everything that's going on.
> Where are you?
>
> > A fact is that it is the opposite: They (the Israeli) have been giving
> > less and less ground to the Palestine Country.
> >
>
> Your comment makes no sense at all.  Israel just turned over Gaza to the
> Palestinians in 2005.  Please be specific.  What land do you contend that
> the Israelis have taken in the past three years?
>
> > Do you read the newspapers? Do you see the news on the TV?
>
> I don't watch TV news.  They lie constantly.  I get my news by reading
> sites on the internet, constantly, daily.  I look at source documents and
> read stuff that many people find boring but lacks the emotional bs you
> find in the major news sites.
>
> > I was suspecting that you had more brains.....
>
> I don't know how you would know what brains I have.  You've never met me.
>
> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
> obvious, my opinions are my own
> and not those of my employer.
> ******************************************
> WARNING: Check the headers before replying
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:15:49 -0600
> From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID: <4831DFEBCBBACCBDA358B202@...intosh-2.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> --On January 4, 2009 5:20:05 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Before this topic I could not imagine that there was a man who is
> > against the palestinian.
> >
>
> Really?  Not one single man?  I dare say you can find several men who
> would be opposed to any subject you raised, regardless of how
> controversial it may be.  In the case of the middle east it would be
> trivial to find thousands.
>
> > I read my newspapers, I see the news, daily. So I know 'something'
> > about the war which was started by the israeli.
>
> What you "know" is what they tell you, which is to say you know very
> little about what it actually going on.
>
> > I 'm graduated, so I can say, I'm not ' the stupid guy'. I read my
> > books, and I am intereseted in history, filosofy and more.
> >
>
> Yet you believe the newspapers and tv.  How odd.
>
> > The israeli people are not very populair. History shows that.
>
> If what you say is true, then would it not be logical to assume that the
> news might be biased against Israel?  After all, if they're not all that
> popular, wouldn't journalists have a built-in reason to not cast them in a
> good light?
>
> > In 1948
> > some ppl helped them, but the israeli screwed it up. That can happen.
> > But nobody heard a ' sorry' . And that makes the israeli ' not very
> > populair'. (lets say it nice)
> >
>
> I'm not sure I follow you here.
>
> > In this topic I read some stories from ppl who believe that the israeli
> > invasion is right. Before this I could not imagine that. I did never met
> > a person with that evil thoughts.
> >
>
> So you think it's evil to shoot back when someone is shooting at you?
> Hopefully you live in a peaceful area.  In some areas of the world you
> wouldn't last an hour.
>
> > I'm confused.
> >
>
> That I can agree with.
>
> > All others know that israel is a agressor. It is since they get a part
> > of Palestine.
> > (The Palestines did not had a choise, they had to give a part of their
> > country away)
> >
>
> Once again, there was no Palestine for the "Palestinians" to give away.
> The Ottomans ruled it until WWI.  Then the British took control.  Then the
> UN decided to give Israel some land there and leave the rest to the people
> who had settled there.  The so-called Palestinians didn't even exist
> except as a collection of people of various origins that shared a common
> geographical area.
>
> > What I want to say is this: I can not imagine that anyone can say that
> > the israeli are doing right.
> > When they where thankful, then there was never a palestinian who drops a
> > bomb or became a suicide-bomber.
> >
>
> Plainly wrong, but obviously not worth pursuing.
>
> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
> obvious, my opinions are my own
> and not those of my employer.
> ******************************************
> WARNING: Check the headers before replying
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:12:49 -0600
> From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID: <7D2B746D92B92EDB8DDFCDB3@...intosh-2.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> --On January 4, 2009 1:25:29 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >  So, mr. Paul Schmehl,
> > Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After they
> > get a gift for their ppl?
>
> What is the "more and more" that you claim they want?
>
> > That's what frustrating me the most.
> > If you get something as a gift.  And still want to have more.
> > That's not very thankful....
> > Israeli are still guests. And welcome.
> >
>
> No, they are not guests.  They have their country.  The Palestinians have
> theirs.
>
> > When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think again.
> >
> > Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround
> > them .  ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) .
> >
>
> Palestinians are not innocent.  Please stop saying that.  They freely
> elected Hamas knowing full well what their agenda is.  Yasser Arafat was
> an Egyptian (actually named Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud
> al-Husseini) who emigrated to Palestine.  He was related to the Grand
> Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, who was a good friend of
> Adolph Hitler and approved of his goal to exterminate the Jews.  The
> Palestinians have never renounced that goal.  In fact they refuse to
> renounce that goal.
>
> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
> obvious, my opinions are my own
> and not those of my employer.
> ******************************************
> WARNING: Check the headers before replying
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:31:34 +0200
> From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@...il.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: "Prototype This" <terminale@...il.com>
> Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk, Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu
> Message-ID:
>        <cd51a8c60901042231k214649bcub1ab3f78fd9fa399@...l.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:41 AM, Prototype This <terminale@...il.com>
> wrote:
>
> > A flame war never kill children and women. You dont receive a Flame
> > email while you are sleeping or your 2 month old child get killed by
> > it. If you dont want flame war you can always quit. With real war ,
> > you cannot. Even there no Mortar Filter or Bullet Catcher in real
> > life.
> > Personally i filter the n3tshit and ureleet email so i dont read their
> > bullshit anymore. But tell me how could Palestinian do that (filter
> > bomb from Isralis bomber to hit an hospital) ? 3000 victims and
> > counting.
>
> Easily. They should stop firing rockets on innocent Israeli citizens, stop
> sending suicide bombers targeting innocent Israeli  citizens, and in
> general
> stop terrorizing innocent Israeli citizens.
>
> At that point, Israel as a country, would not need to use force against the
> terror organizations, to defend it's citizens from those daily attacks.
>
> Keep in mind that Israel is targeting terrorists and is saddned by the
> injury or death of civilians - with Hamas (the elect government of the
> Palestinian people, with over 90% of the votes), they are shamelessly
> targetting civilians.
>
> The fact that Israel is so strong counts for the number of dead on the
> Palestinian side.
>
> Did you ever stop to think about it? If Israel was really targeting
> civilian
> population, what would have stopped it from just leveling the whole Gaza
> strip? You think Israel can't do that? It can, but it cares about the
> Palestinian civilian population.
>
> When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's own
> civilian population as a first priority.
>
> Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
>
> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb the
> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave immediately.
> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's house)
> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF
> pilots
> would not want to harm civilians
> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it clear
> that if they don't leave, they will die,
> 4) The family get the point and run away
> 5) House is fired at
> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > 2009/1/4  <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
> > > On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:22:00 +0200, Avraham Schneider said:
> > >> Not interested in continuing - was just responding to cheap propaganda
> > >> started by an idiot.
> > >
> > > You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
> >
> It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a Muslim and
> defended by a Jew.
> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client you
> use, and forget about it.
>
> >
> > >
> > > How do you expect the Israelis and Palestinians to stop a *real* war?
> >
> I thought you don't care about this subject as it is off-topic - why are
> you
> asking this question?
>
> >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:51:25 +0200
> From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@...il.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: "Mainbox Notif" <rokadeana@...il.com>
> Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk,  Paul Schmehl
>        <pschmehl_lists_nada@...rr.com>
> Message-ID:
>        <cd51a8c60901042251m6dcfe098keee464502c5a832@...l.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Mainbox Notif <rokadeana@...il.com> wrote:
>
> > Before this topic I could not imagine that there was a man who is against
> > the palestinian.
>
> We are against terrorits, not against the Palestinians - they are victims
> like us - we both have Hamas to blame for.
>
> >
> >
> > I read my newspapers, I see the news, daily. So I know 'something'  about
> > the war which was started by the israeli.
>
> Was started by Hamas, with it's daily rocket fire on Sderot (innocent
> Israeli civilan population)
>
> >
> > I 'm graduated, so I can say, I'm not ' the stupid guy'. I read my books,
> > and I am intereseted in history, filosofy and more.
>
> I think some would disagree with you on your conclusion.
>
> >
> >
> > The israeli people are not very populair. History shows that. In 1948
> some
> > ppl helped them, but the israeli screwed it up. That can happen. But
> nobody
> > heard a ' sorry' . And that makes the israeli ' not very populair'. (lets
> > say it nice)
>
> Israelis won a war started by all Arab counties surrounding it - how that
> translates to 'screwd it up'  baffles me.
>
> >
> >
> > In this topic I read some stories from ppl who believe that the israeli
> > invasion is right. Before this I could not imagine that. I did never met
> a
> > person with that evil thoughts.
>
> I think you should open up the dictionary and reevaluate your understanding
> of the word evil. I think you got it confused with 'self defense' - and if
> you never met such a person, I guess you live in another planet.
>
> >
> >
> > I'm confused.
>
> Welcome to earth.
>
> >
> >
> > In my opinion you can only have this evil thoughts when:
> > 1/ you live in Israel (then you see only one side of the story)
> > 2/ you live in a country wich is against the jewish people and have a
> > censored press. (both are bad, IMO)
> > 3/ ????
>
> After you understand that you are misusing the word evil, and should have
> used the words 'self defense' instead, I think you will be less 'confused'.
>
> >
> >
> > All others know that israel is a agressor.
>
> "Another one-way cease-fire that leads to rocket attacks on Israel is not
> acceptable," said the President in the Saturday address. "And promises from
> Hamas will not suffice."
>
> > It is since they get a part of Palestine.
> > (The Palestines did not had a choise, they had to give a part of their
> > country away)
>
> Was nevery their country yet Israel gave it to them on a silver plate as
> part of the Oslo agreements (supported by the extorsionist formula of
> land-for-peace)
>
> >
> >
> > What I want to say is this: I can not imagine that anyone can say that
> the
> > israeli are doing right.
>
> It will be very hard for me to comment on what you can or can not imagine.
>
> >
> > When they where thankful, then there was never a palestinian who drops a
> > bomb or became a suicide-bomber.
>
> What about the suicide bombers targetting and killing Israeli women and
> children?
>
> >
> >
> > For all the jewish people: You can live there together. You can live in
> the
> > Palestinian country. But always remember: You get this country from the
> > palestinian. Be thankful. And do not ask more.
> > And, do not take more!
>
> Repeating lies don't make them true.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2009/1/4 Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
> >
> >> --On January 4, 2009 1:25:29 PM -0600 Mainbox Notif <
> rokadeana@...il.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>  So, mr. Paul Schmehl,
> >>> Can you tell me why the israelian want to have more and more? After
> they
> >>> get a gift for their ppl?
> >>>
> >>
> >> What is the "more and more" that you claim they want?
> >>
> >>  That's what frustrating me the most.
> >>> If you get something as a gift.  And still want to have more.
> >>> That's not very thankful....
> >>> Israeli are still guests. And welcome.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> No, they are not guests.  They have their country.  The Palestinians
> have
> >> theirs.
> >>
> >>  When you (or someone else) can give me a good answer, I wil think
> again.
> >>>
> >>> Since they want to have more and more, they occupy more land surround
> >>> them .  ( the homes of innocent Palestinian ppl) .
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Palestinians are not innocent.  Please stop saying that.  They freely
> >> elected Hamas knowing full well what their agenda is.  Yasser Arafat was
> an
> >> Egyptian (actually named Abd al-Rahman abd al-Bauf Arafat al-Qud
> >> al-Husseini) who emigrated to Palestine.  He was related to the Grand
> Mufti
> >> of Jerusalem, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, who was a good friend of Adolph
> >> Hitler and approved of his goal to exterminate the Jews.  The
> Palestinians
> >> have never renounced that goal.  In fact they refuse to renounce that
> goal.
> >>
> >>
> >> Paul Schmehl, If it isn't already
> >> obvious, my opinions are my own
> >> and not those of my employer.
> >> ******************************************
> >> WARNING: Check the headers before replying
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 23:25:30 -0800
> From: - o z - <osgo@...mail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV1205BE65F8A81E70F3857EDBE10@....gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
>        delsp=yes
>
> On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote:
>
> > When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend
> > it's own
> > civilian population as a first priority.
> >
> > Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
> >
> > 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to
> > bomb the
> > house from the air - demanding that the family members leave
> > immediately.
> > (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's
> > house)
> > 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the
> > IDF pilots
> > would not want to harm civilians
> > 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it
> > clear
> > that if they don't leave, they will die,
> > 4) The family get the point and run away
> > 5) House is fired at
> > 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
>
> Correction #3:  The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon,
> not 'rocket' -- at the next building over.   The kill ratio from a
> rocket's shrapnel
> would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the
> family
> and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure.
>
> #4:  Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from
> the roof.
>
> #5:  Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF
>
> #6:  Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was
> really time
> to leave before someone was killed.
>
> >>
> >> 2009/1/4  <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
> >>>
> >>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
> >>
> > It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a
> > Muslim and
> > defended by a Jew.
> > Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever
> > client you
> > use, and forget about it.
>
> Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!!
> --
>
>
>
>
> ?Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's
> attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it
> would be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the
> feeling of being fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract
> men's attention.  Show me that Rice is a woman? The only thing she
> attracts is reindeer. The States needs to practice the old Soviet
> tradition when both single women and single men were not allowed to
> take responsible state positions..."
>
> --Vladimir Zhirinovsky,  Russian politician, rabid leader of the
> Liberal and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:17:25 +0200
> From: "Avraham Schneider" <avri.schneider@...il.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: "- o z -" <osgo@...mail.com>
> Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID:
>        <cd51a8c60901050017v13e0fc62i442ed93643d4323d@...l.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:25 AM, - o z - <osgo@...mail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote:
> >
> >  When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's
> >> own
> >> civilian population as a first priority.
> >>
> >> Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
> >>
> >> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb
> the
> >> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave
> immediately.
> >> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's
> house)
> >> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF
> >> pilots
> >> would not want to harm civilians
> >> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it
> clear
> >> that if they don't leave, they will die,
> >> 4) The family get the point and run away
> >> 5) House is fired at
> >> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
> >>
> >
> > Correction #3:  The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon,
> > not 'rocket' -- at the next building over.   The kill ratio from a
> rocket's
> > shrapnel
> > would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the
> > family
> > and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure.
>
> http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052034.html
>  The IDF Spokesman said that Ghayan's house had served as a weapons silo
> and
> a war room for Hamas. Under the house, according to the IDF, was a tunnel
> which was meant to serve as an escape route in case of an Israeli attack.
> .
> .
> .
> The IDF has code named such operations "roof knocking," in which the army
> informs the residents of s suspected building that they have 10 minutes to
> leave the premises. In some cases, residents of suspected houses have been
> able to prevent bombing by climbing up to the roof to show that they will
> not leave, prompting IDF commanders to call off the strike. In these cases,
> Channel 10 reported Thursday, the IAF sometimes launches a relatively
> harmless missile at the corner of the roof, avoiding casualties but
> successfully dispersing the crowd.
> .
> .
> .
> It appears that the "roof knocking" technique was used in the
> assassination,
> but Ghayan decided to stay indoors with his family, and the army opted to
> bomb the house anyway.
> A lecturer at Gaza's Islamic University, Ghayan, 49, had mentored suicide
> bombers and would sometimes go on patrol with Hamas fighters. He was known
> for his close ties to the group's military wing and was respected in Gaza
> for donning combat fatigues and personally participating in clashes against
> Israeli forces. He sent one of his sons on an October 2001 suicide mission
> that killed two Israeli settlers in Gaza.
>
>
>
> >
> > #4:  Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from
> the
> > roof.
> >
> > #5:  Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF
> >
> > #6:  Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was
> > really time
> > to leave before someone was killed.
> >
> >
> >>> 2009/1/4  <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>  It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a
> Muslim
> >> and
> >> defended by a Jew.
> >> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client
> you
> >> use, and forget about it.
> >>
> >
> > Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!!
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's
> > attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it
> would
> > be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the feeling of
> being
> > fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract men's attention.  Show
> me
> > that Rice is a woman? The only thing she attracts is reindeer. The States
> > needs to practice the old Soviet tradition when both single women and
> single
> > men were not allowed to take responsible state positions..."
> >
> > --Vladimir Zhirinovsky,  Russian politician, rabid leader of the Liberal
> > and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:46:17 +0200
> From: "Yudi Rosen" <yr42.lists@...il.com>
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] The war in Palestine
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Message-ID:
>        <12395eaf0901050346h7513bb0aka4e7414ede029a38@...l.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It's interesting to note how the PA Palestinians in the West Bank are
> living
> peacefully - they're not launching attacks on Israeli citizens, and
> therefor
> aren't being attacked back by Israel. In fact, many of them have jobs
> within
> Israeli areas and receive benefits from the Israeli government (my source?
> I'm there right now, I've asked to both Jews and Arabs about this).
>
> Yet in Gaza, the ruling party (Hamas) has vowed not just to establish a
> Palestinian country, but also to destroy Israel and kill every last Jew.
> And
> they attempt to make good on their words by deliberately and specificly
> targeting civillians, even killing other Palestinians in the proccess. In
> order to defend it's own people (both Jews and Arabs), Israel launches this
> latest battle.
>
> THEN, (hoping to garner some sympathy for the Hamas cause, it seems?),
> several people start a flamefight on a IT-security mailing list.
>
> ...anyone see what doesn't make sense here?
>
> There are places to flame about this, FD doesn't seem like one of them.
> Please let's get back on topic?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Avraham Schneider <
> avri.schneider@...il.com
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:25 AM, - o z - <osgo@...mail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:31 PM, Avraham Schneider wrote:
> >>
> >>  When there is no choice, there is no choice - Israel has to defend it's
> >>> own
> >>> civilian population as a first priority.
> >>>
> >>> Let me tell you a little of the latest events -
> >>>
> >>> 1) IDF calls a family in Gaza, to let them know they are about to bomb
> >>> the
> >>> house from the air - demanding that the family members leave
> immediately.
> >>> (the IDF had inteligence that weapons were stored in that family's
> house)
> >>> 2) Family members climb to the roof of the house as they know the IDF
> >>> pilots
> >>> would not want to harm civilians
> >>> 3) The IDF pilot fires a rocket to the corner of the roof, making it
> >>> clear
> >>> that if they don't leave, they will die,
> >>> 4) The family get the point and run away
> >>> 5) House is fired at
> >>> 6) Explosions ocur due to ammunition and rockets stored there.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Correction #3:  The MC actually dispatched MIGCAP to fire 20mm cannon,
> >> not 'rocket' -- at the next building over.   The kill ratio from a
> >> rocket's shrapnel
> >> would have killed anyone on the roof, hence, 20mm fire to ward off the
> >> family
> >> and scare the dickens out of them so they would bail from the structure.
> >
> > http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052034.html
> >  The IDF Spokesman said that Ghayan's house had served as a weapons silo
> > and a war room for Hamas. Under the house, according to the IDF, was a
> > tunnel which was meant to serve as an escape route in case of an Israeli
> > attack.
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > The IDF has code named such operations "roof knocking," in which the army
> > informs the residents of s suspected building that they have 10 minutes
> to
> > leave the premises. In some cases, residents of suspected houses have
> been
> > able to prevent bombing by climbing up to the roof to show that they will
> > not leave, prompting IDF commanders to call off the strike. In these
> cases,
> > Channel 10 reported Thursday, the IAF sometimes launches a relatively
> > harmless missile at the corner of the roof, avoiding casualties but
> > successfully dispersing the crowd.
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > It appears that the "roof knocking" technique was used in the
> > assassination, but Ghayan decided to stay indoors with his family, and
> the
> > army opted to bomb the house anyway.
> > A lecturer at Gaza's Islamic University, Ghayan, 49, had mentored suicide
> > bombers and would sometimes go on patrol with Hamas fighters. He was
> known
> > for his close ties to the group's military wing and was respected in Gaza
> > for donning combat fatigues and personally participating in clashes
> against
> > Israeli forces. He sent one of his sons on an October 2001 suicide
> mission
> > that killed two Israeli settlers in Gaza.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> #4:  Family found Jesus right away, no, Common Sense...and bailed from
> the
> >> roof.
> >>
> >> #5:  Cool fireworks display courtesy of your local IDF
> >>
> >> #6:  Kudos to family for making a media moment of defiance, but it was
> >> really time
> >> to leave before someone was killed.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> 2009/1/4  <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You people can't even agree to stop a flame war.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  It's not a flame war - it's an off-topic propaganda started by a
> Muslim
> >>> and
> >>> defended by a Jew.
> >>> Just add the subject to a filter rule in Outlook/gmail/whatever client
> >>> you
> >>> use, and forget about it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Defended by two Jews now, Mazel tov!!!!
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> >>
> >>  --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Condoleezza Rice is a very cruel, offended woman who lacks men's
> >> attention. She needs to be taken to a company of man-soldiers and it
> would
> >> be just fine. Releasing such stupid remarks gives her the feeling of
> being
> >> fulfilled. This is the only way for her to attract men's attention.
>  Show
> me
> >> that Rice is a woman? The only thing she attracts is reindeer. The
> States
> >> needs to practice the old Soviet tradition when both single women and
> single
> >> men were not allowed to take responsible state positions..."
> >>
> >> --Vladimir Zhirinovsky,  Russian politician, rabid leader of the Liberal
> >> and Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> End of Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9
> **********************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>



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