Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:00:51 -0800
From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor@...merofgod.com>
To: Rohit Patnaik <quanticle@...il.com>, "full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk"
	<full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Facebook Police

Ultimately, I think you are right.  Illegal is illegal, and police techniques are police techniques.  In a cut-and-dry analytical world, I would have to agree with you.

However, under-age drinking in Wisconsin is NOT a criminal offence.  This from UoW:
http://www.uwstout.edu/aod/laws/wisconsin_laws/age_laws.html

"Can I Be Arrested? Underage drinking is not a criminal offense. However, a person may be detained by an officer as long as required to conduct an investigation. Sometimes arrests result because of other incident-related circumstances."


There just seems to be something wrong about this.  Sure, people use fake names on facebook all the time.  I even tried to create a "His Hand" account to goof about with the relationship status.  But these cops are willfully and purposefully using a third party service against policy, and facebook is allowing them to do so.  They are gathering "evidence" under false pretenses - last time I checked, that WAS illegal.  And it's not "public."  The privacy settings are there to explicitly PREVENT public access.  I also don't like that they can use a picture (that they don't know how old is) as evidence.  I mean, a picture of a 19 year old holding a beer should not make a case.  But they pleaded (plead?) no contest.  But still, I see you point and I guess I have to agree conceptually.  I still don't like it.  These kids can be sent to war and die for their country, but if they have a beer at a friend's house, some fat-ass Wisconsin cop pretending to be some hot chick on FB can come arrest them because they posted a pix of themselves holding a beer.  How much time does it take?  What is the cost of the arrest?  And what lasting value add does this procedure create?  The kids are not going to stop drinking;  they'll just be more careful about posting pix.  The cops get to sit back in their office and surf facebook and make "easy" arrests rather than doing their job and arresting the aforementioned Chippewa Rapists and still get to justify their existence.  It's disgusting.  And who says a parent or guardian was not present?  How do they know they are not married to someone who IS of drinking age?  I bet the poor sobs don't even know that they are being arrested for something that is not even a criminal office.  

THAT'S the issue I see here....

t

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of Rohit Patnaik
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:55 AM
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Facebook Police

Actually, I'm not sure what the issue is here.  Facebook is a public forum.  Underage drinking is an illegal act.  If
you post evidence of yourself committing an illegal act to a public forum, the police are free to come and arrest you,
and use the pictures that you posted as evidence against you.

The only complaint here seems to be that the police violated Facebook's Terms of Service in "friending" these underage
drinkers and gathering evidence against them.  However, I'm not sure how that's illegal in any way.  If it were,
undercover investigations and sting operations of all sorts would be illegal.

As I see it, these are kids who were caught out in their own stupidity, for doing something that they know to be
illegal, and then posting pictures.  Now these same kids are whining because the police were marginally more tech-savvy
than they assumed.

--Rohit Patnaik
 
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:32:53AM +0100, netinfinity wrote:
>  "Facebook policy requires the use of one’s real name to sign up, but
> they let the police use fake names.."
> 
> Sure the policy says that but a lot of people are changing their names
> on a daily basis (ok maybe not daily). And majority of those changes
> are
> just for fun, but never the less they are against the policy. What
> about those people? Only way to verify or check someone's name is
> through IP (ISP). And that can't be done
> by will.. It must have some legal grounds...
> 
> Let me get to the point, I'm sure that police is violating some some
> kind of human rights or even law's (?)
> 
> -- 
> netinfinity
> 
> _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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