Date:	Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:50:53 -0500
From:	Eric Sandeen <sandeen@...hat.com>
To:	Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz>
CC:	Dmitry Monakhov <dmonakhov@...nvz.org>,
	ext4 development <linux-ext4@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] ext4: don't use quota reservation for speculative
 metadata blocks

Jan Kara wrote:
> On Mon 12-04-10 18:08:10, Dmitry Monakhov wrote:
>> Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz> writes:
>>
>>>> Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>> Eric Sandeen <sandeen@...hat.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dmitry Monakhov wrote:
>>>>>>>> Eric Sandeen <sandeen@...hat.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because we can badly over-reserve metadata when we
>>>>>>>>> calculate worst-case, it complicates things for quota, since
>>>>>>>>> we must reserve and then claim later, retry on EDQUOT, etc.
>>>>>>>>> Quota is also a generally smaller pool than fs free blocks,
>>>>>>>>> so this over-reservation hurts more, and more often.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm of the opinion that it's not the worst thing to allow
>>>>>>>>> metadata to push a user slightly over quota.  This simplifies
>>>>>>>>> the code and avoids the false quota rejections that result
>>>>>>>>> from worst-case speculation.
>>>>>>>> Hm.. Totally agree with issue description. And seem there is no another
>>>>>>>> solution except yours.
>>>>>>>> ASAIU alloc_nofail is called from places where it is impossible to fail
>>>>>>>> an allocation even if something goes wrong.
>>>>>>>> I ask because currently i'm working on EIO handling in alloc/free calls.
>>>>>>>> I've found that it is useless to fail claim/free procedures because
>>>>>>>> caller is unable to handle it properly.
>>>>>>>> It is impossible to fail following operation
>>>>>>>> ->writepage
>>>>>>>>  ->dquot_claim_space (what to do if EIO happens?)
>>>>>>> Hm, if these start returning EIO then maybe my patch should be modified
>>>>>>> to treat EDQUOT differently than EIO ... assuming callers can handle
>>>>>>> the return at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words, make NOFAIL really just mean "don't fail for EDQUOT"
>>>>>> Yes. agree So we have two types of errors
>>>>>> 1) expected errors: EDQUOT
>>>>>> 2) fatal errors: (EIO/ENOSPC/ENOMEM)
>>>>>> So we need two types of flags:
>>>>>> 1)FORCE (IMHO it is better name than you proposed) to allow exceed a
>>>>>>   quota limit
>>>>>> 2)NOFAIL to allow ignore fatal errors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We still need NOFAIL, because for example if something is happens in
>>>>>> ->write_page()
>>>>>>  ->dquot_claim()
>>>>>>      update_quota() -> EIO  /* update disk quota */
>>>>>>      update_bytes() /* update i_bytes count */
>>>>>> It is obvious that write_page should fail because it is too late to
>>>>>> return the error to userspace, so data will probably lost which
>>>>>> is much more dramatic bug than quota inconsistency.
>>>>>> So the only options we have is to:
>>>>>> 1) Do not modify inode->i_bytes and return error which caller will
>>>>>>    probably ignore. IMHO this is not good because result in
>>>>>>    incorrect stat()
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) do as much as we can (as it happens for now), modify inode->i_bytes
>>>>>>    and return positive error code to caller.(which signal what error
>>>>>>    result in quota inconsystency only)
>>>>>   Yes, agreed that 2) is a better solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>> This fatal errors handling logic i'll post on top of your patch-set.
>>>>>> But please change flag name from NOFAIL to FORCE.
>>>>>   Hmm, do we really need to distinguish between your NOFAIL and FORCE?
>>>>> I mean there are places where we can handle quota failures (both EDQUOT
>>>>> or others) and places where we cannot and then we just want to go on as
>>>>> seamlessly as possible. So NOFAIL flag seems to be enough...
>>>>>   Now I agree that in theory there can be some caller which might wish
>>>>> to seamlessly continue on EDQUOT and bail out on EIO but I'm not aware
>>>>> of such callsite currently so there's no immediate need for the flag.
>>>>> So Eric's patches seem to be fine to me as they are. What do you think?
>>>> FORCE but without NOFAIL will be useful for example in
>>>> write to fallocated area
>>>> extent split/convert (uninitialized=>initialized conversion)
>>>> It is not good idea to return EDQUOT from write to reserved area
>>>> due to metadata overhead, but it is easy to handle EIO from that method.
>>>> So IMHO two flags is not a fancy option, but reasonable design solution.
>>>> This design confirms to right for openvz's userbean counters.
>>>> The only thing i ask is to rename NOFAIL => FORCE.
>>>   But as I wrote in my other email that callsite in ext4 really needs NOFAIL,
>>> not only FORCE as far as I can see. So Eric's patch is actually right, isn't
>>> it?
>> Ohh. Seems we are talking about the same thing but my explanation is
>> not clear (sorry for my crappy English)
>> The whole patch is definitely right. All places changed has NOFAIL
>> (it must succeed in 100% of cases)semantics. And it is reasonable to
>> accept it as is.
>> Later i'll add new FORCE flag and:
>> 1) convert all NOFAIL callers to (FORCE|NOFAIL)
>> 2) add new callers of FORCE.
>   OK :) This is fine with me. I'd just slightly favour "NOLIMIT" instead
> of "FORCE" since it explains better what the flag does.

Chiming in at the end of a long thread, I'll just say I like NOLIMIT better, too :)

-Eric

> 								Honza

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