Date:	Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:47:35 +1000
From:	Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com>
To:	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>
Cc:	Casey Schaufler <casey@...aufler-ca.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>,
	Seth Forshee <seth.forshee@...onical.com>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
	Linux FS Devel <linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org>,
	LSM List <linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org>,
	SELinux-NSA <selinux@...ho.nsa.gov>,
	Serge Hallyn <serge.hallyn@...onical.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/7] Initial support for user namespace owned mounts

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 07:42:03PM -0500, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com> writes:
> 
> > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:47:08PM -0500, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> >> Casey Schaufler <casey@...aufler-ca.com> writes:
> >> > On 7/15/2015 6:08 PM, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> >> >> If I mount an unprivileged filesystem, then either the contents were
> >> >> put there *by me*, in which case letting me access them are fine, or
> >> >> (with Seth's patches and then some) I control the backing store, in
> >> >> which case I can do whatever I want regardless of what LSM thinks.
> >> >>
> >> >> So I don't see the problem.  Why would Smack or any other LSM care at
> >> >> all, unless it wants to prevent me from mounting the fs in the first
> >> >> place?
> >> >
> >> > First off, I don't cotton to the notion that you should be able
> >> > to mount filesystems without privilege. But it seems I'm being
> >> > outvoted on that. I suspect that there are cases where it might
> >> > be safe, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.
> >> 
> >> There are two fundamental issues mounting filesystems without privielge,
> >> by which I actually mean mounting filesystems as the root user in a user
> >> namespace.
> >> 
> >> - Are the semantics safe.
> >> - Is the extra attack surface a problem.
> >
> > I think the attack surface this exposes is the biggest problem
> > facing this proposal.
> 
> I completely agree.
> 
> >> Figuring out how to make semantics safe is what we are talking about.
> >> 
> >> Once we sort out the semantics we can look at the handful of filesystems
> >> like fuse where the extra attack surface is not a concern.
> >> 
> >> With that said desktop environments have for a long time been
> >> automatically mounting whichever filesystem you place in your computer,
> >> so in practice what this is really about is trying to align the kernel
> >> with how people use filesystems.
> >
> > The key difference is that desktops only do this when you physically
> > plug in a device. With unprivileged mounts, a hostile attacker
> > doesn't need physical access to the machine to exploit lurking
> > kernel filesystem bugs. i.e. they can just use loopback mounts, and
> > they can keep mounting corrupted images until they find something
> > that works.
> 
> Yep.  That magnifies the problem quite a bit.
> 
> > User namespaces are supposed to provide trust separation.  The
> > kernel filesystems simply aren't hardened against unprivileged
> > attacks from below - there is a trust relationship between root and
> > the filesystem in that they are the only things that can write to
> > the disk. Mounts from within a userns destroys this relationship as
> > the userns root, by definition, is not a trusted actor.
> 
> I talked to Ted Tso a while back and ext4 is at least in principle
> already hardened against that kind of attack.  I am not certain I
> believe it, but if it is true I think it is fantastic.

No, it's not. No filesystem is, because to harden against such
attacks requires complete verification of all metadata when it is
read from disk, before it is used, or some method or ensuring the
block was not tampered with. CRCs are not sufficient, because they
can be tampered with, too.

The only way a filesystem would be able to trust what it reads from
disk has not been tampered with in a system with untrusted mounts is
if it has some kind of cryptographically secure signature in the
metadata and the attacker is unable to access the key for that
signature. No filesystem we have has that capability and AFAIA there
are no plans for any filesystem to implement such tamper detection.
And no, ext4 encryption does not provide this because it only stores
the values and data in encrypted format and does not protect
metadata from tampering when it is not mounted.

If we don't have crypto signatures in metadata, then XFS is probably
the most robust against tampering as it does a lot more checking of
the on-disk metadata before it is used than any other filesystem
(i.e. see the verifier infrastructure that does corruption checks
after read (in io completion) and before write (in io submission)
to catch bad metadata before it is used by the kernel, or before it
is written to disk by the kernel.

However, these checks are far from comprehensive. we can only check
internal consistency of the metadata objects in the block, and even
then we really only can check for values within range rather than
absolute correctness. e.g. we can check a dirent has a valid name,
length, ftype and inode number, but we can't validate that the inode
is actually allocated or not because that requires a lookup in the
allocated inode btree. We *trust* that inode number to be
allocated and valid because it is in metadata the filesystem wrote.

For inode numbers that come from untrusted sources (NFS,
open-by-handle, etc) we have a flag that does inode number
validation on lookup (XFS_IGET_UNTRUSTED) to check against trusted
metadata (i.e. the allocated inode btrees), but that is expensive
and so not done on inodes that we pull directly from metadata that
has come from disk. Indeed, we still trust on-disk metadata to be
correct to validate that other metadata canbe trusted, so if one
structure can be tampered with, so can others.

IOWs, if we cannot trust one part of the filesystem metadata to be
correct, then we cannot trust that filesystem *at all*, *for
anything*. And even running fsck doesn't restore trust - all it does
is tell us that any modification that was made is not a detectable
inconsistency that needs fixing.

> At this point any setting of the FS_USER_MOUNT flag I figure needs to go
> through the filesystem maintainers tree and they need to be aware of and
> agree to deal with the attack from below issue.
> 
> The one filesystem I truly expect we can make work is fuse.  fuse has
> been designed to deal with some variation of the attack from below issue
> since day one.  We looked at what the patches to fuse would look like
> with the current state of the vfs and it was not pretty.
> 
> We very much need to sort through as much as possible at the vfs layer,
> and in generic code.  Allow everyone to see what is going on and how
> it works before preceeding forward with enabling any filesystems.

The VFS protects us from attacks from above the filesystem, not
below. The VFS plays no part in validating the on-disk structure of
a filesystem which is what attacks from below will be attempting to
exploit.

> I truly hope we can find a small set of block device filesystems that we
> can harden from attack below.   That would allow linux to have serious
> defenses against evil usb stick attacks.  I think that is going to take
> a lot of careful coding, testing and validation and advancing the state
> of the art to get there.

Somehow, I just can't see that happening.

Cheers,

Dave.
-- 
Dave Chinner
david@...morbit.com
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