Date:	Thu, 30 Apr 2015 23:41:28 -0700
From:	Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@...il.com>
To:	Guenter Roeck <linux@...ck-us.net>, netdev@...r.kernel.org
CC:	davem@...emloft.net, vivien.didelot@...oirfairelinux.com,
	jerome.oufella@...oirfairelinux.com, andrew@...n.ch,
	cphealy@...il.com, mathieu@...eaurora.org, jonasj76@...il.com,
	andrey.volkov@...vision.fr, Chris.Packham@...iedtelesis.co.nz
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next 7/8] net: dsa: mv88e6060: make it a proper
 PHY driver

Le 04/30/15 19:28, Guenter Roeck a écrit :
> On 04/30/2015 09:46 AM, Florian Fainelli wrote:
>> On 30/04/15 06:49, Guenter Roeck wrote:
>>> On 04/29/2015 06:57 PM, Florian Fainelli wrote:
>>>> Convert the Marvell 88E6060 switch driver into a proper PHY library
>>>> driver that can be registered. To make sure we do not introduce
>>>> functional changes, the PHY driver provides autoneg and status
>>>> callbacks
>>>> to make sure the attached Ethernet MAC driver still sees a link UP at
>>>> the CPU port full speed.
>>>>
>>>> Signed-off-by: Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@...il.com>
>>>> ---
>>>>    drivers/net/dsa/mv88e6060.c | 114
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++--
>>>>    1 file changed, 109 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> The whole complexity added here makes me wonder if we are really on the
>>> right track.
>>> After all, switches are _not_ phy devices. Forcing them to register as
>>> phy devices
>>> just because they use mdio and just because the Linux mdio
>>> implementation assumes
>>> that anything connected to it is a phy seems odd.
>>
>> The net advantage I see with this approach is that currently, with DSA,
>> you get to do the following:
>>
>> - register a "dsa" platform device
>> - force your CPU Ethernet MAC to hardcode link parameters, either via a
>> "fixed PHY" or via custom settings (ala mv643xx_eth)
>> - probing needs to occur in a *very* specific order: MDIO first,
>> Ethernet device second, DSA last
>>
>> Now, with this patchset, you don't need to have DSA awareness in
>> anything but the "provider" driver which in this case is a PHY driver
>> because it sits on the MDIO bus (see below on that topic) and things
>> tend to "flow" a bit more naturally one you do that.
>>
> 
> See, that is where I have the problem. The switch connects to the MDIO bus,
> and the Linux infrastructure therefore declares that it has to be a PHY
> chip, and that one must implement a phy driver to connect to it.
> 
> But it isn't a PHY we are dealing with. It is a switch chip.
> 
>>>
>>> A much better solution might be be to disconnect mdio from phy, ie to
>>> create a new
>>> mdio bus framework, as then use this framework for anything connected to
>>> an mdio bus.
>>
>> So essentially end-up creating a separate class of MDIO addressable
>> devices which are switches? I guess we could try to do that. We would
> 
> Yes, that would be the idea. Instead of declaring that everything
> connected to MDIO must by definition be a PHY chip (and thus implement
> a phy driver), we could have a MDIO infrastructure and different types
> of devices connect to it (such as phy and switch chips, and whatever
> else may be out there that uses MDIO).

Ok.

> 
> In a way this is similar to other busses, such as I2C or SPI or PCIe.
> To me, modeling the switch driver as phy driver is kind of similar
> to modeling all I2C drivers as, say, EEPROMs.

Well that is true to some degree, switches do typically expose real PHYs
for their individual non-CPU ports, so they are kind of enhanced PHY
devices in some sense, but yet not quite full-featured Ethernet MACs as
well.

> 
>> still have to update existing Ethernet MAC drivers which speak phylib to
>> know what to do with their CPU port and set correct link parameters,
>> would we want to create a special PHY drivers for these, just for the
>> CPU port?
>>
> Not sure I follow you here.

If you have an Ethernet MAC driver, e.g: mv643xx_eth, bcmgenet, mvneta
or others which are already using the PHY library via of_phy_connect()
for instance; if your switch driver is implemented as a PHY driver, you
get to discover this switch pretty much for free, just like if it was a
regular PHY. That is why I used this approach, and what others have done
in OpenWrt as well, such that you can have mostly unmodified Ethernet
drivers transparently use MDIO-connected switches just like they would
do with an Ethernet PHY.

If we do not do that, which is certainly fine, I am more worried about
having to patch every single driver that knows phylib and teach them how
to speak to switches, a different class of devices. Maybe the PHY
library is pushing the abstraction a little to far, and what we need is
something that looks like the "old" style MII bus code that sb1250-mac.c
has for instance?

> 
>>>
>>> Does this make any sense, or am I completely off track ?
>>
>> I think this is very valid, my main point behind this entire patch
>> series is to divorce from the special "dsa" platform_device for common
>> cases: MDIO or MMIO connected switches to a SoC, because it is
>> convoluted and prevents a lot of things from being done: module
>> unloading, proper device reference (and parenting), need for "out of
>> band" link information to be provided to unmodified Ethernet drivers
>> etc...
>>
> 
> Oh, I absolutely agree that the current model has problems. I am just not
> happy about modeling the switch drivers as phy driver.
> 
> Thanks,
> Guenter
> 


-- 
Florian
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