Message-ID: <20020820161804.GI57585@darkuncle.net>
From: lists_full-disclosure at darkuncle.net (lists_full-disclosure@...kuncle.net)
Subject: Ka's msg re: Bugtraq delay/censorship

Interesting post, especially towards the end.

On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 07:19:31PM -0700, hagbard-celine@...hmail.com said:
[snip]
> The "underground", regardless of how it is
> perceived or how it chooses to portray some 
> elements of itself, is alive and kicking - same 
> as it ever was even in the days of L0pht,
> root.org, and folks like Ice9. 

Real hackers today are doing exactly the same thing they've been doing for the
last 40+ years - hacking. Creating. Exploring and learning. Sometimes the
only way to learn about something is to break it, or break into it. The
latter was true in older days, when a lot of systems were inaccessible to the
average joe. It's getting less and less true as time goes by and computer
systems and networks become more ubiquitious and affordable.

Real hackers are out there hacking. Not talking trash on IRC all day long,
pretending they're gangstas from the ghetto and trying to break into each
others' systems. Hackers are hacking, not wasting their time sitting around
doing nothing. "But I'm a hacker!", someone will undoubtedly protest. "I
break into systems - hacking is only about breaking into systems and/or
causing damage!" Maybe in your lexicon. Real hackers are creating things -
have you created anything lately? If the answer is no, you should try it.
It's ultimately more satisfying than an army of DDoS zombies or yet another
IRC channel under control of your bots.

The underground is definitely still alive, as always - you were right on with
that post. But you're not too likely to find real hackers (as in our
predecessors from MIT, and in later days, the crews like l0pht and cDc)
idling all day long on IRC or threatening death and destruction. And the real
blackhats, on the other hand, are out there stealing information, breaking into
banks and governmental networks, working for organized crime and corporate
espionage sections - you won't find them hanging out on IRC bragging about
channel takeovers and the like, either.

> But I wonder if the time has come to begin 
> construction of Gibson's "Walled City" (see his 
> novel "Idoru") or Stephenson's "Metaverse" (from 
> his "Snow Crash") and totally unplug from
> the made-for-TV tragedy called "The Taming of 
> the 'Net"...just a thought...

Have you by chance read Tad Williams' series "Otherland"? If you liked "Snow
Crash" or Gibson, you should _definitely_ read it. Book one is called "City
of Golden Shadow". All I can say is, I'm pretty sure construction efforts on
the pre-alpha versions of what will eventually become the 'Metaverse' are
already underway. I just hope that hackers will be able to keep it free and
open, as they did with the Internet (another government-funded project). As
for jacking into it, well ... you might be interested in the cover story from
this month's _Wired_. I had no idea brain implant technology had progressed
this far - this is lifted straight from 'The Matrix' ...
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.09/vision.html

(Sorry about that rant - what started out as a 3-line reply ended up going on
longer than I intended.)

And with that, I will stop posting and get back to whatever the current
project was.

cheers,
-- 
-= Scott Francis || darkuncle (at) darkuncle (dot) net =-
  GPG key CB33CCA7 has been revoked; I am now 5537F527
        illum oportet crescere me autem minui
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