Message-ID: <20020920140904.GL954@bokeoa.com>
From: core at bokeoa.com (Charles Stevenson)
Subject: greyhat-IS-whitehat?

PHC,

On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 04:49:01AM -0700, phc@...hmail.com wrote:
> First of all - the guy posting from phc@...h.com is a moronic poser.

At least we have something in common. ;)
 
> fuk is dead (R.I.P dawg). Please address us as PHC.

Dead or in jail? Or perhaps hiding in fear of persecution for his misdeeds?
 
> That's too bad, Charles. PHC feels sorry that a w00w00 'security expert' such as yourself is struggling to get through life -- in fact, we'd be more than happy to make a donation. We could send 5 0days to SnoSoft under your name if you like -- that would earn you $250 ($50 per exploit) -- and you could possibly invest it in a slab of prozac and a handjob down at your local brothel (you have a lot of pent up tension).

I don't want your hand outs. I work for my money. You see there's two
kinds of people in the world if I may generalize. Those who live for
wordly power and those who live for authentic power. Worldy power is
seductive. It gives instant gratification but comes at a price. I live
for authentic power which comes from within. Maybe you should gobble
down some mushrooms and find god within because you obviously don't
realise that all things are interdependant. Or perhaps you do. Perhaps
you are bringing balance to a system that was oversaturated with
"do gooders". Anyways if you want to send me some cash for a handjob then
send away. As far as the prozac no thanks I prefer to alter my
neurochemistry with gifts from Mother Earth. Also, I should state for
the record that I am not a member of w00w00. I suppose you could call
me a fan, groupie, scene whore. Whatever trips your trigger. But I
have much respect for it's members... whatever shade of hat they may
be. You see to me it doesn't matter black or white. I respect good
code.
 
> No, but please feel free to tell us. PHC would like to apply Lance's theory of 'know your enemy' to this particular case.

I suppose that was more of a rhetorical question. But something over
5,000 would be a good ballpark figure. 
 
> The only thing you learnt from that exploit is w00w00's says-it-all phrase: 'You're lucky we're whitehats, else we'd own your dumb ass' (or whatever).

Well I hate to burst your bubble but appearances can be deceiving.
 
> BTW - does w00w00 take donations? We have a CD with beta AIM sources that we could possibly throw their way if they are ready to make an oh-so-big impact on the security scene with their annual advisory...

LOL. I wouldn't know. As I said I'm not a member I didn't mean to
mislead you with the #!w00w00 thing. But seeing as PHC really seems to
dislike w00 I thought I'd mention it to add some fuel to the fire.

> Well, core.. not much is exploitable in a paper bag, but, using mystical
> black arts we would:
> 
>   1. Assign a point on the bag at which to overflow.
>   2. Decide who could aim their penis with tactful-precision.
>   3. Aim the penis at the overflow point and begin to urinate.
>   4. Once the overflow point is nice and moist, penetrate the paperbag.

Oh aren't we sarcastic and cynical?
 
> We don't want to wage war with you any more than we'd want to kick a wheelchair confined amputee in the nuts.

You don't have a choice. I'm going to rip your head off, guage your
eyes out and skull fuck you boys.
 
> We do believe in a certain amount of charity. The farthest we'd go from matched competition is to GForce Pakistan. We wouldn't meet you in the abyss beyond that.

Say again?

> We're glad you're doing custodial work at SnoSoft. It's a great opportunity for you to prime your dumpster diving skills to find the sheets of paper used by KF in jotting down his intense mathematical calculations for his perl -e command line overflows that are as interesting as watching paint dry.

Well SnoSoft spills a lot of juice so someone has to clean it up.

> Please give Blue Boar our best regards. As SnoSoft's assistant janitor, he is really trying to at least maintain a fingernail grip on his estranged Vuln-Dev, but sadly, The Vuln-Dev New Guy is at a higher rung of the ladder and casts all of Blue Boar's technically challenged posts in the trash.

What's your beef with BB? Did you just wake up one day and say eureka
I can find 0day vulns and write exploits for them? Cause I sure
didn't. I started out reading vuln-dev and every other source of
information I could find. Or perhaps you're old school hackers. Bitter
at all of the new people who like to make a name for themselves. Well
if that's the case then take it from me. I don't want the fame. I post
shit to these lists because I am proud of my code. My code is my
expression, my art, my soul. Even the lamest, most disgusting, piece of
code is beautiful! Or have do you the collective PHC not value art. I
question if you love anything? Maybe you should save that $$$ and
divide it up amongst yourselves, buy a box of condoms and some KY
jelly and relieve some of that tension, anger, rage, hatred, envy,
greed, lust for power, fame, glory and all that other bullshit you
uplift as virtuous. 

So basically what we see here is an age old philosophy
battle. "Socrates has to meet Glaucon?s argument that men abide by
moral rules, not simply because they ought to, but in order to avoid
the pain of censure and punishment, Glaucon claims that, given the
possession of Gyges? ring which can render a man invisible to others,
no man would keep his hands off what was not his own when he could
safely take what he liked. He could in all respects be like a God
among men. Against this Socrates sets his conception of the just man
who does what he ought to do because it is just, and because justice
is essential to the very life and health of the soul."

So the internet is Gyges' ring. And you are seemingly invisible so you
do what you please. Therefore you have no conscience, khadir (hi Ka;),
inner guiding voice which you follow. You have no respect for karma or
God in fact I will go out on a limb and state that you do not belive
in God. It's obvious. You're a pissed off bunch of kids, or perhaps
old men going through a midlife crisis who have lost faith and
hope. So you are outlashing on those who are changing the way computer
security works. But if you respect no gods how can you respect the
inherent chaos in all things. This is Loki at work if you look at it
in that light. Or scientifically it's chaos man. The universe is
constantly morphing when mapped on the space/time dimension in order
to manifest in this reality all permutations or possibilities for
existance. Without being aware of it you are fullfilling gods will by
making a mockery of yourself and blackhats everywhere. The truest
blackhat works alone. He does not post e-mails to lists. He does not
sit on IRC and bullshit. He keeps it within and therefore only his
inner voice can betray him, get the best of him, or drive him to
suicide. Anyways my point is that either the internet is Gyges' Ring
the internet was created by man and thus man being imperfect has
created a virtual nightmare. Or because man has created the internet
and it is imperfect no man can truely hide on it. What are your
thoughts PHC?
 
> It might have been a better idea to put this URL at the top of the e-mail so people knew what you were rambling on about from the start.

I never said I could rant and rave coherently. I'm mostly insane ;)
 
> "Us" as in whitehats? We knew it. Yes, you feed us. No mistake about that... we've compromised so much shit with the CSS/XSS crap pumped out by people like you daily.

Us as in the people on your list. PHC is slapping their mother in the
face by attacking "Greyhats". Moreover since you spelled gray with an
"e" versus an "a" I will postulate that you are not american. Thus my
search narrows. Oh.. and I'm a player hating mother fucker. So don't
get too upset if your hushmail account get's closed. }:-)>~ Call me
Judas.. who's your daddy? That's right core is... unF.
 
> Your very ignorance in calling people you don't know 'script kids' -- you attest PHC relies on exploits you create, you fucking inbred imbecile -- is the same level of ignorance that has seen so-called 'experts' in the passed owned to fuck. Anyway, it is our collective opinion that you're a total zero, and the fact that you consider yourself a formidable opponent is truly laughable. Don't you have better things to do than throw tantrums on public mailing lists?

Own me then bitches... own me. Until then you can stop woofin' all
that bullshit and pay some respects. Appologize to the community for
your misdeeds, but more importantly, appologize to yourself. Accept
yourself for who you are. Doesn't matter what shade of hat. But
attacking others shows transferance of repressed emotion. Or whatever
that psych term is. I'm no expert on anything. Just a humble young man
trying to survive in a world ruled by money. One I was born into and
cannot change. Shit I can't even live off the land because there is
none left. It's all been divided up and this whole concept of
ownership in humanity is just bullshit. Imaginary lines, imaginary
safety, in reality I will reach out and touch you. It's a small world
after all.
 
> Peace? Is this not a little bit of a contradiction after you have just declared war on the #phrack High Council?

Sometimes you hurt the ones you love. But I wish peace and
enlightenment to all.
 
peace,
core

-- 
  Charles Stevenson (core) <core@...eoa.com>
  Lab Assistant, College of Eastern Utah San Juan Campus 
  http://www.bokeoa.com/~core/core.asc

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