Message-ID: <609875390.20020921170615@cerber.no>
From: misha at cerber.no (Mikhail Iakovlev)
Subject: we should block: hushmail.com, hush.com

Hello Shawn,

Saturday, September 21, 2002, 8:23:39 AM, you wrote:


>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: 'martin f krafft' [mailto:madduck@...duck.net]

>> Thanks for being so productive. And thanks for the cookie. Oh, and
>> thanks for replying to the list! Thanks for being what you are, and
>> *thanks* for shutting up!

MS> You're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome (I think),
MS> and on the last one, I'm afraid shutting up has never been my strong suit.

MS> Oh, and lucky you, I'm replying to the list again! Consider yourself blessed
MS> that I have no life. Actually since I didn't start the thread, and since
MS> it's a relevant discussion, I see no harm at all, although I hope we're
MS> finally done flogging this issue. 

MS> Since the less elegant answer wasn't appreciated, here's the more cerebral
MS> response. It's been said on the list ad infinitum already, and I'm
MS> personally sick of hearing it and sick of hearing people who don't get it --
MS> I figure if it hasn't sunk in by now it's not gonna, but what the hell, I
MS> like charging at windmills. 

MS> It's works like this: Free Speech is NOT free. In fact it costs a lot.
MS> Having a forum with zero moderation and next to no rules (there are some,
MS> but with no moderation, they're not terribly enforceable) means the noise
MS> level will be high, sometimes unbearably so. I've seen it go through three
MS> or four iterations since the list's inception: the initial PHC floods /
MS> spoofs, coupla others, the real Gobbles (and the people who love him),
MS> bizarro Gobbles (and the people who can't tell the difference),
MS> memetic_engineer's stuff, and so forth.

MS> Still, throughout the trolling, spamming, hat-color jihads, navel-gazing,
MS> and flamewars there have been a LOT of gems that wouldn't have shown up
MS> elsewhere, like Solar Eclipse's posts of late, the Snosoft v. HP threads,
MS> things that SFOnline wouldn't let through, lots of fun sort of barroom
MS> rambling, (plus some really funny trolls), things that you never see
MS> anywhere else. Helluva lot more interesting to read than an advisory on
MS> DOS'ing videoconferencing boxes, if you ask me.

MS> That's what this list is, like it or lump it. Proposing dumping Hushmail/com
MS> / Hush.com is like killfiling anon.penet.fi way back when. Yes you'll remove
MS> some noise, but also some signal. Personally I don't find losing ANY of the
MS> signal acceptable, at any cost. I'm willing to do the work of sorting
MS> through the rest. I think the owners of this list agree. That's why I
MS> subscribed, why did you?

MS> In short, use filters, don't feed the trolls, and lighten up. Moderation
MS> (hopefully) is never going to happen, and God bless Len for it. Vulnwatch,
MS> NT-Bugtraq, Vuln-Discuss, etc are where to go for the play-by-play; this
MS> list for the color commentary.





MS> --shawn



>> also sprach Moyer, Shawn <SMoyer@...re.com> [2002.09.21.0147 +0200]:
>> > Say it with me now: 
>> > 
>> > Proc....
>> > 
>> > Mail....
>> > 
>> > Yay! I knew you could! You get a cookie!
MS> _______________________________________________
MS> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
MS> Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html

That's it.
I'm unsubscribing. It's a waste of my valuable time to delete endless
amount of mails in my mailbox coming from this useless mailing list.
Idea originally was good, but it turns out I have _nothing_ to gain
from it at all. All I see is arguing and kiddie stuff.

Bye all.
I still prefer bugtraq, at least it's clean.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mik-

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