From: sockz at email.com (sockz loves you)
Subject: [PHC] Sermon #3 (w/ reply to Paul Schmehl &
    others)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Euan Briggs" <euan_briggs@...nternet.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:52:30 -0500 
To: <full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com>
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] [PHC] Sermon #3 (w/ reply to Paul Schmehl & others)

> Sorry to tell you this PHC, but I know who the majority of you are
> and where you originate from. 

OMG NO!!!
does this mean that my real identity as a transvestite cross-gendered ex-felon
stripper who never originated from boston but really comes from a shell that was
hatched in the ocean deep has been made public?!  oh the embarassment!!!  how 
will the hacker world ever take me seriously again!?!

mr euan briggs, PHC isn't just the #phrack@...et ops.  there are members of PHC
who aren't opped on #phrack, some who don't even visit the channel.  some who
dont even bother with irc like you and i do.

but seriously, i'd like to know what you know about me, and where i "originate
from".  i'm comfortable with you revealing this to the list or anywhere else for
that matter.  my identity is hardly something of a secret these days, but i'm
fairly certain you remain without any clue.
 
> My work with Snosoft does not mark my entry into the field. To be
> frank, the reason I entered the whitehat arena, is because I am
> appalled at what has happened to the blackhat scene. I am appalled by
> the motives and attitudes of people such as PHC. I am appalled by the
> behaviour of people like you. I have a conscience and a sense of
> responsibility, towards my fellow human beings and our society. I
> want the world to be a better place. I don't see working for the
> security industry as some sort of "betrayal" of my blackhat roots, I
> see it as making a -positive- contribution to society. I see it as
> paying my debt to society, for the years I spent as a blackhat.
> Entering the industry was a natural progression. I dont get a kick
> out of crime, it only brings guilt and it is a rejection of the
> society that nurtured you,  human society which you owe your life to.

if this is the case then what have you actually done about it?  you
constantly whine and gripe about how #phrack is so "bad and evil and omg stop
them!!"  but so far your actions to stop #phrack have amounted to zilch, nada,
nothing.  if you are so eager to talk about how great you are and how right you
are, then why not give us some evidence as to why we should believe you.  if
you're not prepared to show evidence of malicious activities against #phrack or
anyone else then shut up about your "blackhat roots" and your "debt to society".

i doubt you ever were a blackhat, as you have consistantly shown a lack of skill
to back up the lies you tell.
 
> You claim to "hate" the security industry, because you believe they
> are exploiting hackers and their world. Unless you yourselfs are
> genuinely being exploited, I would say this part of your rather
> contradictory manifesto its nothing more than a thin veneer of
> justification for your delinquent attitudes. As I said in my last
> post, I think you are just pissed off that you have a motivated and
> well funded competitor (the industry), and people like you helped
> create it.
*snip*

i cant speak for everyone who's against the security industry, just myself.
so far my ideology in this whole mess has evolved.  as i expanded my
investigation into what the problem actually is, i realised that the term
"anti-security industry" didn't really fit me, as i was more about changing
the current system for the better... not the worse.  like you and just about
everyone else on this list i feel a degree of social responsibility when it
comes to the matter.  but unlike yourself i am not so resistant to change, and
the cost of that change.

we're learning as we go along here, just like anyone else.  plz dont take words
that were uttered in the heat of spirited patriotism to be the basis of our
arguments.

*snap*
> You claim to be advocating non-disclosure because you believe it will
> increase security, yet at the same time you claim to be blackhat
> (implication = criminal) hackers. It doesnt add up.

*sigh*
i've tried to explain this so many times before.  yet again i attempt to 
simplify everything without making too broad an assumption... yet again do i 
explain this:

blackhat ~= person who advocates non-disclosure.  hacks computers.  doesn't brag
security ~= the likelihood of a system withstanding an attack.

at the moment many many ppl have ready access to information on how to
compromise security.  but a person can only secure their own system.  this
means that many ppl pose a security risk that few ppl can actually manage.
(strong offence versus weak defence)

non-disclosure solves this problem.

if fewer ppl know about hacks (because blackhats dont talk about them) then
fewer systems are threatened because the ratio of "attackers:admins" is
reduced.

PLEASE, try and think about it for yourself instead of trying to find all the
faults in what i've said.  just take a good look with an open and rational mind
and work it out for yourself, it will make sense, i promise.


> Nobody gives a damn because you have nothing interesting or useful to
> say. Nobody gives a damn because you are wrong. You simply want to
> stop full-disclosure so you can continue your disgruntled teenager
> "soft crime" blackhat antics. You want to remove script kids from the
> scene, not to make the internet more secure, but to restore the
> prestige and status that true hackers used to have, for your own
> selfish interests (your ego). You want to feel special again, and not
> just the generic hacker number 4593845 that you are now.

i think you must have overlooked something crucial when you were writing this,
that or maybe you hadn't slept enough, or were having a bad day, or just too
much coffee.  the first two lines about nobody giving a damn didn't even strike
a cord against my self-esteem as i have none, and dealt with the whole "no-one
gives a damn" concept months ago.  its like i said, i have a sense of social
responsibility that nags at my conscience (or whats left of it).  sure i could
just throw my hat in on this whole movement and say "fuck it, i'm out", and i'd
be lying if i were to say this thought hadn't crossed my mind before.  but the
reason why i don't isn't because of any of the reasons you stated.  its because
i WANT to do this.  i WANT to make an impact and try to change things.  the fact
that its an uphill battle means is more of a challenge to conquer.  i dont do
this for public recognition.  i do this as a personal challenge, an area of 
interest, the ultimate hobby.
 
> As misfit teenagers, your flawed ideology is understandable to some
> degree. As adults, you are simply petty criminals, and there is
> nothing glamorous, sexy, or clever about crime other than the
> fabricated ideas which the media has blunted your morality with.

i think its grand that you think teenagers could be so smart.  but all you've
done here is proven how little you really know about PHC (see top of this email
where you claimed otherwise).  your petty attempts at trying to demonise our
efforts serve only to highlight your own ignorance in the ways of psychology
and social engineering.  if i did all of this for attention and social
recognition from my peers then you'd see me at bars proclaiming to cute chicks
how much of a hacker i was.  bragging in the hope that it will get me sex, or
social recognition.  i've seen ppl do things like that and it sickens me.  i
think nothing debases human intelligence and respect more than bragging.

bragging gets you into trouble.  trouble is detrimental to my cause.  hence, i
dont brag.  i only seek to let ppl know what i'm _about_ so that i can somehow
inspire them to join with me and achieve a better future.

now if you'll excuse me i need some sleep before a big day/night ahead tomorrow.

take care and plz think about what i've said.  not at face value, but about
what it _means_.  what i'm _trying_ to say versus my inability to communicate.


<3 sockz
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