Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.43.0307141346300.4964-100000@tundra.winternet.com>
From: dufresne at winternet.com (Ron DuFresne)
Subject: GUNINSKI THE SELF-PROMOTER


interesting article, and yet, I can't see a reason to fault either
guninski or danka at this point in the game.  M$ is not known for it;s
handeling of researchers caught falws in itps codes and apps well, and
until vendors can stepup to the plate in the process, meaning that they
take reported accounts seriously enough to be 'part of the process',
which they tend to now avoid for various reasons and in various ways, they
can't expect the need for full disclosure to abate or diminish.  No matter
how one views the whole disclosure debate, those holding most the cards
tend to be the vendors.  And vendoor shell games tend to be the most
debilitating factor in the present standing and long debated disclosure
issue.  And we've not even mentioned the issue of 'responsibility' to
produce cleaner code, nor who should be held 'liable' for some of the
crappy applications that vendors push onto the public.

Thanks,

Ron DuFresne

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 dhtml@...h.com wrote:

>
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> Schneier has a little more credibility that Smith methinks.
>
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=135262788&zsection_id=268448455&slug=softwarebugs14&date=20030714
>
> Hackers, software companies feud over disclosure of weaknesses
>
> By Doug Bedell
> The Dallas Morning News
>
> As Muhammad Faisal Rauf Danka recalls it, he tried 10 times to call a
> software maker about a devastating security flaw in one of its most popular
> programs.
>
> "It is so simple it is funny," the Pakistani researcher says. But nothing
> happened. Then he took his findings to a global audience ? a worldwide
> mailing list devoted to exposing and exploring software bugs.
>
> Vindication came swiftly: Within days, Microsoft acknowledged that 200
> million of its Passport accounts had been left open, apparently for months,
>  allowing the easy hijacking of credit-card and other personal data.
> The company shut down the Passport system and fixed the hole.
>
> To some, Danka is a hero for publicly prodding a big company into swiftly
> correcting an error. But to Microsoft, he is an "information anarchist"
> who makes it easier for malicious hackers to inflict havoc on the masses.
>
>
> Those viewpoints frame the ongoing debate about the principle of "full
> disclosure," the computer world's longtime standard for exposing security
> flaws so that they can be isolated and repaired.
>
> Not long ago, these arguments might have mattered only to programmers
> geeking out code and the hackers who try to crack it. But with software
> so pervasive in Americans' everyday lives ? and growing more so every
> day ? the debate affects almost everyone.
>
> Proponents of full disclosure say that a proliferation of bad software
> makes full disclosure essential. Only public pressure, they say, can
> compel big companies to speedily make fixes available. Microsoft has
> issued a dozen critical security patches this year.
>
> Microsoft and its peers say the tell-all model of publicizing software
> problems is a road map for computer pirates. Chairman Bill Gates is the
> driving force behind Microsoft's year-old Trustworthy Computing Initiative,
>  an effort to improve software reliability.
>
> Under pressure to shore up the nation's computer systems from external
> threats, the federal government is now siding with Microsoft against
> full disclosure.
>
> Its reasoning goes like this: Mistakes in programming are inevitable,
>  so there's no need to publicize how to attack millions of computers
> until the software maker has a chance to fix the problem.
>
> "Here we have this really weird situation of security people helping
> the bad guys," said Richard Smith, an independent computer-security consultant
> in Brookline, Mass. "There's little doubt that happens, whether they
> like it or not."
>
> Worming in
>
> Worms and viruses such as Code Red, Nimda, Slapper and Klez have crept
> into virtually everyone's computing experience. When they strike, these
> devilish ones and zeros can slam business and individual users alike,
>  costing billions in lost productivity and repairs.
>
> Software controls so much of our daily lives that eradicating its glitches
> has become a national priority. At the front end, developers are experimenting
> with novel approaches to code-writing such as "Extreme Programming,"
> which employs teams of collaborating specialists who work side by side
> on projects, sharing keyboards and techniques.
>
> Governments, including the state of Texas, are taking aim at overbudget
> software projects that typically run months behind schedule. Meanwhile,
>  as more programming moves overseas to countries with cheaper labor,
> a whole new realm of software security and design issues has arisen.
>
>
> "Bugs in code are not like the weather, but Microsoft would have you
> believe that they are; that they just happen," said Bruce Schneier of
> Counterpane.com. "They are either mistakes in design or development.
> Microsoft doesn't want to make a mistake. When someone discovers one,
>  it makes them look really bad."
>
> In January 2002, Microsoft acknowledged that one of its most important
> responsibilities is to improve the reliability of its software, through
> the Trustworthy Computing Initiative. The Passport vulnerability is perhaps
> the largest snafu to evade the initiative's extensive security reviews.
>
>
> Room to improve
>
> Everyone agrees that software quality needs improvement.
>
> One researcher, a Bulgarian named Georgi Guninski, has exposed about
> half of more than 100 security holes in Microsoft's Internet Explorer
> Web browser. Some have allowed scripting on Web pages to execute programs
> that completely surrender control over an Internet-connected computer
> to the bad guys, "black hat hackers" or "crackers."
>
> In many cases, Microsoft has issued patches that shore up security. Smith
> said, however, that the majority of Guninski-found vulnerabilities have
> not been used by virus writers and crackers to infect computer systems.
>
>
> That's where the full-disclosure practice of releasing "exploit code"
> polarizes the debate.
>
> When some researchers announce they've found a security hole, they also
> publish a sample of a successful attack. That "exploit code" can be used
> to craft some nasty programs known as "malware," such as Trojan horses,
>  worms and viruses.
>
> In the case of the Passport flaw, Danka reported that anyone could gain
> control over Passport accounts by adding "emailpwdreset" to a string
> of commands at the https://register.passport.net Web address. The Web
> page in question had been set up to allow users to regain access to their
> accounts when they forget their passwords.
>
> Passport is an integral part of Windows XP and Microsoft's .NET offerings.
> It allows users to store credit-card numbers, passwords and identification
> information to make online shopping more streamlined.
>
> Full disclosure
>
> Danka and Guninski adhere to the full-disclosure principles by regularly
> reporting findings to security mailing lists such as BugTraq and Full-
> Disclosure. From there, anyone with basic code-writing abilities can
> build their own programs ? both good and bad.
>
> The motivations vary for publishing exploit code. Guninski, for example,
>  is an unabashed self-promoter.
>
> "He's looking for work in the security area, so he's looking to establish
> his reputation by finding security holes," Smith said. "He definitely
> publishes exploit code. He's been doing that since Day One, and definitely
> some of the exploit code has ended up in some viruses."
>
> Others may attempt to use the threat of exploit-code release as a way
> to extract money from software manufacturers. And still others may simply
> want to damage the reputation of companies such as Microsoft.
>
> For his part, Danka asserts that he was only investigating why his own
> Passport account had been hijacked. He stumbled on the Web page scripting
> flaw within about four minutes of exploring Microsoft's password-reset
> function.
>
> Last year, when Guninski discovered a security hole inside Microsoft's
> Office XP, he informed the company about his discovery, waited 14 days,
>  then published instructions on how it could be exploited.
>
> Not enough time
>
> Microsoft said that wasn't enough time to issue a patch. And, frustrated
> with the entire full-disclosure principle, it began using such situations
> to bolster arguments that the entire bug-reporting system needs an overhaul.
>
>
> Mike Nash, Microsoft's vice president of the Security Business Unit,
> said in an online chat in November that the company wants the software
> community to behave more responsibly.
>
> "Our goal is to inform people about security issues when we have a way
> to mitigate it," Nash said. "In most cases, the benefit of waiting for
> a quality mitigation (usually a patch) outweighs the timing issue. There
> are exceptions. The goal is to make sure that we provide people a great
> way to protect themselves before we explain issues to potential criminals."
>
>
> But, as Smith points out, even if a patch is issued, it is virtually
> impossible to get every user of the software to install it in a timely
> manner.
>
> "This whole idea that you can force the manufacturer to produce fixes
> does no good," Smith said. "You might have 100 million computers that
> need updating. Tell me the mechanism that's going to make that happen.
> I just don't see it."
>
> Those in Smith's camp back a model of limited full disclosure. Exploit
> code should not be released in most cases, Smith said.
>
> Consensus-building
>
> Microsoft has pressed for industrywide consensus on handling security
> issues. In April, the company joined International Business Machines,
>  Intel, Hewlett-Packard and Advanced Micro Devices in forming a body
> they called the Trusted Computing Group to adopt security standards.
>
>
> Microsoft has also allied with Symantec, Network Associates and other
> software companies in the Organization for Internet Safety (OIS). In
> the next few months, it is expected to release a proposal outlining best
> practices for handling security vulnerabilities.
>
> A Microsoft spokesman says the company is committed to "responsible disclosure"
> proposals such as those being prepared by the Internet safety group.
> The spokesman says Microsoft's security chiefs believe those backing
> full disclosure represent a tiny minority.
>
> Scott Blake, an OIS spokesman, says the group will ask that no exploit
> code be released until 30 days after a software vendor has issued a patch.
> That delay, he says, would at least give end-users a fighting chance
> to update their software before malicious hackers develop widespread
> attacks.
>
> "Vendors and researchers should work together to find a fix before they
> go public with information," Blake said. "The theory is that vulnerability
> information for which there is no fix only helps the bad guys."
>
> Smith said such efforts are futile.
>
> "You've got so many little companies and individuals who are looking
> for security holes, you literally have thousands of people who would
> have to agree on this," he said. "I don't see that happening."
>
> But Counterpane's Schneier insists that full disclosure is still the
> best alternative. "What we've learned during the past eight or so years
> is that full disclosure helps much more than it hurts," he said.
>
> "Since full disclosure has become the norm, the computer industry has
> transformed itself from a group of companies that ignores security and
> belittles vulnerabilities into one that fixes vulnerabilities as quickly
> as possible."
>
>
>
> Copyright ? 2003 The Seattle Times Company
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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