full-disclosure - Computer Sabotage by Microsoft

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Message-ID: <20030912031807.ZRFJ4662.lakemtao06.cox.net@winxppro>
From: rkingsla at cox.net (Rick Kingslan)
Subject: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft

Jay,

All good points.  You possibly misunderstand - I'm not in any way arguing
the absurdity.  That, it is - and I fully concur and concede that point.
However, unless one is independently wealthy with plenty of reserves, I
seriously question taking on MS and the EULAs over a ~$200.00US video
console.

THAT is absurd..... 

However, I do think that you CAN sell me a car that only turns left on
Sundays IF I am stupid enough to READ the contract and SIGN the same -
giving up my right to litigation over a 'feature' that occurs because of
'human error' in the design and build process.  Or, possibly it's a feature
that other customers asked for and received because they promised to by
thousands of those cars for stock car racing on Sunday nights.

Regardless, it was in the contract....  If you don't read, you get what you
pay for.  Caveat Emptor....

-rtk

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays@...ix.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:07 PM
To: Rick Kingslan
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com; Jay Sulzberger
Subject: RE: [Full-Disclosure] Computer Sabotage by Microsoft



On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Rick Kingslan wrote:

>  "So I want my money back. I payed for a black box with specific 
> features the font hack was one of the features. If they kill this 
> feature, they kill my property and have to pay for it."
>
> Uhhhh.... Yeah.  That's gonna happen.  I suggest not holding your 
> breath while you wait, however.
>
> -rtk

No.  Likely the case would be won in many jurisdictions.  There is a law of
buying and selling, and such absurd denials of most of this body of law as
the Microsoft EULAs will not stand.  But if we do not fight, Microsoft might
win some stuff here.  I recommend fighting.

Example: I cannot sell you a car with the proviso that you make no left
turns on Sundays.  Microsoft EULAs are often more absurd than this.  Indeed
the one we are discussing is worse: it says that you must accept invasion of
your computer and sabotage of the software.  Of course you do not have to
accept this EULA.  You bought a piece of hardware and now you are running it
in your house.  Microsoft gets to say nothing about what you do with your
bought and paid for computer in the privacy of your house.

oo--JS.


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com
> [mailto:full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com] On Behalf Of Stefan 
> Esser
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:59 PM
> To: Rainer Gerhards
> Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
> Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Computer Sabotage by Microsoft
>
> Hello,
>
> > I can understand you frustration of no linux & cracked games 
> > anymore, but "written permission"... Well, well...
>
> You misunderstand me completely beside the fact that you accuse me of 
> creating copies of games. I am the person who cracked the xbox open 
> via the font hack and I am not frustrated at all, because I can revert 
> the illegal changes of MS to MY hardware anytime. It is just that MS 
> has no fucking right to autoupdate my box. No matter if I am a LIVE 
> customer or not. They can terminate my license and pay me my money 
> back if the update is really needed, which it is not.
>
> > As you said "it *finally* happened" ;) If you purchase that blackbox 
> > design, you get what you pay for. Microsoft never said it did these 
> > things that you try to do. While there are good points to blame 
> > them, I think this time it is not. It is simply doing what it was
supposed to...
>
> There is NOT a single word in the whole EULA and documentation of the 
> XBOX that it will not execute nonsigned software. I found a way to 
> work around this defect. Microsoft destroyed that way, they killed one 
> of the features (again... nowhere in the docu is written that this is 
> NOT one of the
> features) So I want my money back. I payed for a black box with 
> specific features the font hack was one of the features. If they kill 
> this feature, they kill my property and have to pay for it.
>
> Yours,
> Stefan Esser
>
> --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Stefan Esser                                        s.esser@...atters.de
>  e-matters Security                         http://security.e-matters.de/
>
>  GPG-Key                gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0xCF6CAE69
>  Key fingerprint       B418 B290 ACC0 C8E5 8292  8B72 D6B0 7704 CF6C AE69
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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