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From: pdt at (Paul Tinsley)
Subject: Fw: Red Hat Linux end-of-life update and transition

Your opinions on RedHat show that you have never been an administrator 
in a big shop.

I have been administrating RedHat boxes for years and have yet to touch 
a GUI.  I started off with slackware and went away from it when I wanted 
real administration capabilities.  Your comments are very typical of a 
small shop administrator, get back with me when you run out of cute 
names for your boxes and have to start numbering them.

Redhat's configuration layout is not very complex...  /etc/sysconfig/* 
gets 99% of the system wide stuff /etc/enter_service_name_here/* for 
specific service stuff... covers most of the rest.  Thinking that RedHat 
is preventing you from using the console is lack of the true workings of 
a Linux box or the inability to read documentation, if you understand 
how a Linux box works, you could track down the configuration files 
pretty easily.  Start with init and work your way up, you should be used 
to brute force coming from slackware.

And as I am currently in the market for a new low-end server OS and you 
say that slackware is the best one out there.  How do I deal with the 
- Listing installed "packages" on the machine; slackware documentation 
shows how to install, update, and remove but not query installed 
packages for version information 
(  How would I get a list 
of all the packages installed with name, version and summary information 
in csv format?  One RedHat 'linux "power user"' way would be rpm -qa 
--qf '%{NAME},%{VERSION},%{SUMMARY}\n'

- Automate patch and package deployment for a large install base?  A 
couple of RedHat ways would be up2date with the satellite server or autorpm.

- support best practice user account security: password lockout after x 
failed tries, password complexity, password aging, central 
authentication?  I can send you my pam configuration files if you want.

Please think before you post.

Michael Gale wrote:

>Ya - well - your opinions of other distro's just goes to show why you were using RH.
>RH is, oh wait - was linux's version of windows, a pain in the a$$. People who started off on RH usually never learned anything and are stuck with the same problems as windows has except for less crashing. 
>Modifying things is a pain because there are 50 millions different places that RH keeps the data and you can't do anything from the console so you get stuck using the GUI they provide. 
>And please RPM'S !!!!! Should I just provide you with a windows install shield :)
>Slackware is at version 9.1 thank you :) and in my opinion the best linux distro out there for server class machines, I feel it is better then freeBSD :)
>It is also a great desktop OS -- it is just a "not out of the box" desktop - x-windows running machine.
>Suse and Mandrake make fairly decent out of the box x running desktop machines.
>But this is the whole point on using Linux - control and freedom. You get to do what ever you want, how ever you want with YOUR PC !!!.
>I good luck to the RH company -- I hope you crash and burn. To all the RH users. Time to RTFM, stop trying to be linux "power user" and use a real distro. Hell - go and dw OpenBSD and start there !!! Is it like driving a car -- you do not start with the Porsche, you work your way up to it.
>On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:22:30 -0500
>"Jonathan A. Zdziarski" <> wrote:
>>On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 14:11, Tim Groninga wrote:
>>>Got the same f-you-gram today - already figuring out what distro to
>>>fall back to but 99% of my experience has been on Redhat. No time to
>>>try them FreeBSD/SuSE/Mandrake - what are your opinions of
>>>each? Flexiblity, ease of use, ease of migration, security etc. 
>>I would love to see the open source community pull together and create a
>>better "user-friendly" Linux distribution to replace RedHat.  So far all
>>of the alternatives I've looked at, while not bad, are quite frankly not
>>impressive enough to capture any desktop user market space away from
>>Microsoft...which is what I feel is the most important contribution
>>RedHat made to Linux prior to turning into a bunch of selfish
>>blood-sucking misers.  
>>To answer your question:
>>Debian: 8 CDs of useless or outdated software, 2.2 kernel install,
>>poorly designed install tool
>>Slackware: What version are we at?
>>Mandrake: Welcome n00b.
>>Lindows: su? we don't need no stinking su.
>>FreeLSD: Uh, how did this make it into the mix? 
>>SuSe: the most promising, which is why they'll probably be next to screw
>>the Linux community.  Not sure if I can handle them discontinuing it for
>>a SECOND time.
>>I'm a strong supporter of open-source, free software...but wtf good is
>>the GPL if the cycle always ends in the open-source, free software
>>community being screwed?
>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.

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