Message-ID: <20031103215109.1c1e8cda.michael@bluesuperman.com>
From: michael at bluesuperman.com (Michael Gale)
Subject: Fw: Red Hat Linux end-of-life update and
 transition planning


Oh please -- I love a challenge:

- Listing installed: 
	well pkgtool is a dialog menu option to install, remove packages and it can also list ALL installed packages by name and version but not CVS format.
 
In the /var/log/packages is a file for every package install and it contains very detailed information about the package. You should check it out, to see the detailed specs. 

But this may not be in your nice CVS format.


- Automate patch and package deployment for a large install base:

So you are saying you trust up2date to take care of all your machine updates ? That is like saying you trust Microsoft auto update to handle your servers. What happens when they release a bad patch ? or one that hoses your machine. 

I a machine called patches.domain.com -- where all my servers connect to hourly via a freeSwan VPN connection or sftp (depending on location) and install and NEW packages I have placed in this directory. The script used the upgradepkg command.

This way I can test and packages before they get installed and I KNOW THE SOURCE of the packages. There is no "ops .. RedHat servers have been hacked and I just installed ...".

This also allows me to download source, compile, make a slackware package and pass it out to my servers.

- support best practice user account security:

PLEASE - like RedHat is the only distro that has this feature :)
You can start with login.defs, then login.access 
Oh and how about when you create the account adduser and useradd which every you use has a some of these options built in.

How about we now start with NIS logins from a central server :) we could do home directories mounting over NFS via a NIS account authentication. We can use PAM too -- you must realize that anything you can do on Red Hat ANY OTHER linux distribution can do as well.

The reason slackware is a better server class distro then RH is because of slackware's simplicity. The install script is so simply. That I myself - have been able to write my own install files or simple modify the ones provided to install only the required software and use custom config files.

I have played with the Red Hat install and have worked on automating it -- ya -- the RH auto install feature is to very restrictive. With slack -- it is so much easier to write custom install scripts.

Oh and did I mention that from one slackware version to the next there is basic NO change at all - except for package updates.

Try going from RH 6 to RH 9 -- all of a sudden that directory where you config files were -- ya is not there any more. 

I have worked in BIG SHOPS thank you very much and you know what. BIG SHOPS - don't use Red Hat.

People who want free Unix like machines that do not know anything about linux or want to not have to learn anything about linux will setup a Red Hat box.

Oh -- did I mention that slackware is the most Unix like distro available. There is a reason that hotmail is running on FreeBSD and NOT Red Hat 

Ouch!!!

The next time your RH machine locks up, your dual processor is only tack 1 CPU and the rpm install fails and you do not know what to do -- as a slackware user.

Michael


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:16:49 -0500
Paul Tinsley <pdt@...khammer.org> wrote:

> Your opinions on RedHat show that you have never been an administrator 
> in a big shop.
> 
> I have been administrating RedHat boxes for years and have yet to touch 
> a GUI.  I started off with slackware and went away from it when I wanted 
> real administration capabilities.  Your comments are very typical of a 
> small shop administrator, get back with me when you run out of cute 
> names for your boxes and have to start numbering them.
> 
> Redhat's configuration layout is not very complex...  /etc/sysconfig/* 
> gets 99% of the system wide stuff /etc/enter_service_name_here/* for 
> specific service stuff... covers most of the rest.  Thinking that RedHat 
> is preventing you from using the console is lack of the true workings of 
> a Linux box or the inability to read documentation, if you understand 
> how a Linux box works, you could track down the configuration files 
> pretty easily.  Start with init and work your way up, you should be used 
> to brute force coming from slackware.
> 
> And as I am currently in the market for a new low-end server OS and you 
> say that slackware is the best one out there.  How do I deal with the 
> following:
> - Listing installed "packages" on the machine; slackware documentation 
> shows how to install, update, and remove but not query installed 
> packages for version information 
> (http://www.slackware.com/config/packages.php.)  How would I get a list 
> of all the packages installed with name, version and summary information 
> in csv format?  One RedHat 'linux "power user"' way would be rpm -qa 
> --qf '%{NAME},%{VERSION},%{SUMMARY}\n'
> 
> - Automate patch and package deployment for a large install base?  A 
> couple of RedHat ways would be up2date with the satellite server or autorpm.
> 
> - support best practice user account security: password lockout after x 
> failed tries, password complexity, password aging, central 
> authentication?  I can send you my pam configuration files if you want.
> 
> 
> 
> Please think before you post.
> 
> 
> Michael Gale wrote:
> 
> >Ya - well - your opinions of other distro's just goes to show why you were using RH.
> >
> >RH is, oh wait - was linux's version of windows, a pain in the a$$. People who started off on RH usually never learned anything and are stuck with the same problems as windows has except for less crashing. 
> >
> >Modifying things is a pain because there are 50 millions different places that RH keeps the data and you can't do anything from the console so you get stuck using the GUI they provide. 
> >
> >And please RPM'S !!!!! Should I just provide you with a windows install shield :)
> >
> >Slackware is at version 9.1 thank you :) and in my opinion the best linux distro out there for server class machines, I feel it is better then freeBSD :)
> >
> >It is also a great desktop OS -- it is just a "not out of the box" desktop - x-windows running machine.
> >
> >Suse and Mandrake make fairly decent out of the box x running desktop machines.
> >
> >But this is the whole point on using Linux - control and freedom. You get to do what ever you want, how ever you want with YOUR PC !!!.
> >
> >I good luck to the RH company -- I hope you crash and burn. To all the RH users. Time to RTFM, stop trying to be linux "power user" and use a real distro. Hell - go and dw OpenBSD and start there !!! Is it like driving a car -- you do not start with the Porsche, you work your way up to it.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:22:30 -0500
> >"Jonathan A. Zdziarski" <jonathan@...learelephant.com> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 14:11, Tim Groninga wrote:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Got the same f-you-gram today - already figuring out what distro to
> >>>fall back to but 99% of my experience has been on Redhat. No time to
> >>>try them all....so FreeBSD/SuSE/Mandrake - what are your opinions of
> >>>each? Flexiblity, ease of use, ease of migration, security etc. 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>I would love to see the open source community pull together and create a
> >>better "user-friendly" Linux distribution to replace RedHat.  So far all
> >>of the alternatives I've looked at, while not bad, are quite frankly not
> >>impressive enough to capture any desktop user market space away from
> >>Microsoft...which is what I feel is the most important contribution
> >>RedHat made to Linux prior to turning into a bunch of selfish
> >>blood-sucking misers.  
> >>
> >>To answer your question:
> >>
> >>Debian: 8 CDs of useless or outdated software, 2.2 kernel install,
> >>poorly designed install tool
> >>
> >>Slackware: What version are we at?
> >>
> >>Mandrake: Welcome n00b.
> >>
> >>Lindows: su? we don't need no stinking su.
> >>
> >>FreeLSD: Uh, how did this make it into the mix? 
> >>
> >>SuSe: the most promising, which is why they'll probably be next to screw
> >>the Linux community.  Not sure if I can handle them discontinuing it for
> >>a SECOND time.
> >>
> >><rant>
> >>I'm a strong supporter of open-source, free software...but wtf good is
> >>the GPL if the cycle always ends in the open-source, free software
> >>community being screwed?
> >></rant>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >>Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >  
> >
> 
> 

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