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From: dufresne at winternet.com (Ron DuFresne) Subject: Professional Groups the "buy american" ideal/ordeal<?> was a thing of the 70's <1970's>, and most likely fails in a situation whence wal mart is making busloads of cash, in a weak economy,pushing products for the most part mace in china. Thanks., Ron DuFresne On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Matt Burnett wrote: > Forgot to include this in my previous post. I am personally wondering if > thoses tech jobs going overseas will come back. Im not sure if it has been > discussed on this list, but what about the quality of the software written > overseas? We all know that American made software typically has a few > security issues, but what of software made overseas? Are we going to see > exploits come out on a obsecene basis. Could this result in jobs coming back > to the US? Also we have seen a few jobs come back, take Dell's Enterprise > Tech Support as a example, tons of people with money complained to Dell and > now we have a few more jobs back. What if we all started to complain about > the quality of products (even if there isn't a problem), and threaten to > switch vendors? > > On 1/12/04 2:31 PM, "Daniel Sichel" <daniels@...derosatel.com> wrote: > > >> It's time we as a professional group start talking and walking like > >> adults (at least more than in the past), I think. Just playing with > >> computers is fine, but not enough. > > > >> Agreed. And believe me, I have spent many an hour trying to figure out > > > >> how to approach the problem. Unfortunately, every solution I can come > >> up with involves educating the masses . . . many of whom don't want to > >> be confused with facts . . . ;> > > > > This is off topic but I couldn't help myself. What we need is a union. > > Why? Well right now, management generally buys the software that has the > > cutest infobabes, the best promise, or safe branding (Microsoft). If we > > had a union that negotiated a contract that paid us extra for fixing > > software failures or broken installs, so that the bottom line got hurt > > by the crap these people sell, it would take about 5 minutes for the > > priorities to change in purchasing decisions and for SLAs and tech > > support to be ratcheted up where they belong. > > > > Speaking as a US citizen, if we were Teamsters and honored their picket > > lines think of the leverage we would have. Scab truck drivers are > > available, but imagine the chaos of scab sys admins or firewall > > administrators? And of course when the Teamsters honor our picket lines, > > that wouldn't hurt a bit. > > > > Be nice to keep our jobs from going to third world countries where tech > > professionals are even more exploited than here. > > > > But of course, all my technical professional colleagues will pooh-pooh > > the idea of a union. They always do. Think about this, a union for us > > could be like the bar associatio for lawyers or the AMA for doctors. We > > could impose stringent professional abilities, certifications, and > > requirements to ensure we are a professional, capable body of people. We > > could institute apprenticeships so we have a supply of people who are > > more than paper MCSEs or CCNAs. > > > > I am very fortunate that I work in an enlightened company that pays more > > than lip service to standards and security. Management totally backs us > > up on secure and safe computing. No IM, no HTML mail, no user installed > > software. A budget for security and training. It is wonderfule. It is > > also the first employer in my 15 years of IT experience that follows > > through on these things. But I remember the pain and anguish from > > before. If we are going to change our industry so that we can succeed at > > our jobs, we need a union. Period. > > > > > > Dan Sichel, Network Engineer > > Ponderosa Telephone Company > > (559) 868-6367 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > > Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html > > "The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) is the most dangerous > organization in the world." > Bill O'Reilly on Fox News during the "No Spin Zone" on January 10th 2004 > > _______________________________________________ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation." -- Johnny Hart ***testing, only testing, and damn good at it too!*** OK, so you're a Ph.D. Just don't touch anything.
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