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From: thomas8142 at (Thomas Loch)
Subject: (no subject) (!!!)

But with the right tool these 12-years-old kids can produce much damage, too. 
But these guys you called 'real hackers' are simply criminal sleaze breaking 
into computer systems in order to spread fucking porn stuff or do alike. This 
has nothing to do with the original idea of 'hacking'! Read the hacher ethics 
page of the CCC for example or the definition at and 
you'll probably know what I want to say. But if you decide to read it, read 
it carefully and try to understand.

Using the word 'hack' in the context of crime is both incorrect and  	
condemnable. A better term for a person who performs such bad actions is 
'cracker'. (But this term must be handled with care, too)

(From CCC page:)
> ...
> The hacker ethics were first written down by Steven Levy  in his book
> Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution  (ISBN 0-440-13405-6, 1984). He
> mentions the Tech Model Railroad Club at MIT, their members constructed a
> supersystem of relays and switches - some of them became core members the ai
> lab. They used the term "hack" for an "elaborate ... prank" with "serious
> respect implied". The hacker ethics evolved in a time when computers were
> scarce; and the people sharing a machine had to think about rules of
> cooperation.
> ...
> A hacker is anyone who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively
> overcoming or circumventing limitations, primarily in their fields of
> interest, namely programming or electrical engineering. As will be discussed
> below, there is a trend in the popular press to use the term to describe
> computer criminals, and others, whose motivations are less pure than the
> traditional hacker. This trend greatly annoys many of those old-school
> computer/technology enthusiasts.
> ...

On Tuesday 10 August 2004 19:31, Todd Towles wrote:
> DNA matching for real diseases is at least more accurate than string
> matching for computer viruses. Sig-based AV scanning will always be behind
> on variants. If I can take a virus, change a line in it and infect 100
> people without an AV product even winking, they things can be changed.
> But maybe I am the only person that wants to be protected? We have made the
> public more scared of 12 year old script kiddies then real hackers working
> with organized crime family. Funny the way the world works. =)
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [] On Behalf Of
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:45 AM
> To: Frank Knobbe 	condemnable
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] (no subject)
> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:33:50 CDT, Frank Knobbe said:
> > I know, my wife has type 2. They still call it diabetes.
> By that logic, we have "bagle", "agobot", "netsky", and "mydoom". No
> need for variant names, and no need for a name for an attack of pancreatic
> cancer that knocks out your insulin production, because that's just
> diabetes too.
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter:

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