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From: mvp at joeware.net (joe)
Subject: lame bitching about xpsp2

I am trying to figure out from all of your posts if you are just a troll or
truly think you are saying something that can help.

You complain about the past and then complain about SP2 in the same breath
like you are saying, I don't like what they did, so I don't like what they
will ever do. This is pretty silly. You follow with an RFC rant, so even as
MS has started following RFC very closely (too closely for some now who
realize now they didn't want RFC compliance, they wanted MS to do it the
*nix way) you still would whine because they are also working on extending
the RFCs to make them more useful or not following de facto *nix standards
even if they aren't RFC. 


> Well its similar at people who refuse somit in block 
> before having tried it, its just plain stupidity and 
> their ego gets hurts thinking they might have to start 
> from zero.

I can't really understand what you are saying here but it sounds like you
are concerned that you will have to learn Windows, is this your real
problem?


> but after MacOS, i am pretty sure even M$ will use Unix as 
> a base in future windows versions

I do not work for MS but would be very comfortable in saying this will not
occur. Had MS wanted to follow a *nix like path, they could have a long time
ago... They were doing *nix back in 1980. 


> Longhorn boast "msh", the M$ shell.
> ( sh geez thats original ).

Two things. First, have you seen Monad? If not, you might want to look at it
before even trying to spout your normal uninformed opinion. You will
probably find that someone is going to be trying to duplicate portions of
that functionality in your favorite non-MS OS shortly. Second, now you are
whining about names?


> The goal of M$ is to archieve total control of information,

Err no, their goal is to maintain a profit and compete as a business like
they always have. The Microsoft world is not so religious as you have been
raised to think. I realize this is unknown to you. But have faith...


> M$ business model is a threat to our freedom, and i would 
> like our childrens to have a choice, and not be formated 
> the M$ way.

Last I looked, MS wasn't the only OS writer out there and you aren't being
forced to use it. How is it that your children won't have a choice? Or are
you forecasting the death of the *nix derivitives? I hope not and expect you
are wrong if you are, they have their uses. 


Your overall post is silly. You complain and whine saying MS is doing this
this and that wrong but if there is any attempt on their part to correct
things you just whine about that as well. Admit it, there is nothing that MS
could do that would make you say, hmmm, maybe they have a good idea here. I
can almost visualize the spittle forming on your lips as you type your
responses. Dude, chill out. 


BTW, re some of your other posts. 

I recall nimda and I don't recall my Windows machines getting infected even
though they sat on the internet. Sounds like it was a patching issue after
all... 

You argue to use Windows like systems (e.g. OpenOffice), just not Windows.
This simply points out you have a hard on for Microsoft, not that you have
anything worth listening to. Making business users use non-Windows systems
will not magically build in them a wish to learn more and become more
computer proficient. Most business users don't really much like computers
and view them as a necessary evil. Windows is tolerable because they have
been using it at home and have a good idea on how to use it (which BTW,
having all of those Windows machines at home helps reduce training costs at
work). Slapping some alternative OS on the desktop be it Mac, BSD, *nix, or
BeOS isn't going to cause a great desire to learn computers. Period. 

On the permissions thing. Windows could be locked down and run as non-admins
ages ago. We did it in a corporate environment in 96 with NT. What were the
results? People bitching because they couldn't load software they wanted to
load that had nothing to do with work and a rebuild rate going from at least
one machine a week (we had thousands of machines) to none in six months. Of
course if you run a different OS, the user's won't complain about not being
able to do what they want... Oh wait yes they will, some people thought the
same for the Win31 to WinNT 4 upgrade because it was a different OS with a
different look and different rules and more security. 

There are two benefits that a company would get right now if they jumped
whole hog from Windows. 1. The misconception of lower cost of ownership
because of reduced licensing costs and perceived reduction in cost of
patching (*nix never has to be patched, it is never on the news).  2. Less
chance of being penetrated by a worm or virus because they have avoided the
mono-culture... What happens if this is very successful and you have a new
mono-culture... Oops. 

My Windows machines I use do real multitasking, are stable, and are not
prone to virii. In fact I can't recall the last virus I had, I think it
might have been form-a back in the mid 90's. Ditto for my BSD and Linux
machines. They are all tools, they have their places. 

Troll elsewhere. 


-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com
[mailto:full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com] On Behalf Of devis
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 8:51 AM
To: Full-disclosure
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] lame bitching about xpsp2

It seems hard to beleive how people are tolerant and easy to forgive M$ for
doing such mistake along their product release. How do you a tag a product
'professionnal' when it gets owned by 41 kb of malware code ? 
Not throwing the stone, but M$ has never been careful about security, and
often been blamed, rightfully, for the high numbers of clones / owned
machines are there, that disrupt the internet with malicious traffic.

 But somehow, people seems to turn a blind eye to the past, and actually pat
Microsoft in the back for SP2. Short term memory ? Or is it really your ego
that gets upset if you had to remove these winbox ?
Using M$ systems, they always managed to boost your ego, being an
'administrator' and having 'all that  power' at the click of your mouse. 
In all fairness,  "I am good with windows" means "I know where to click",
nothing more and shows how the typical M$ user is scared as hell of having
ever one day to learn Unix, go through RFCs ( what for ? M$ don't even read
em themselves ), and use the command line. ( Not DOS, a proper unix shell ).
Why is that ? Well its similar at people who refuse somit in block before
having tried it, its just plain stupidity and their ego gets hurts thinking
they might have to start from zero.

Tough, but after MacOS, i am pretty sure even M$ will use Unix as a base in
future windows versions, maybe without never saying admitting it, as they
did so many times before. Longhorn boast "msh", the M$ shell. ( sh geez
thats original ).

The goal of M$ is to archieve total control of information, and they already
succeed, mainly due to fools that defend their business model, not having a
clue what the rest is, and worse turning a blind eye to it, feeling safe in
their 'clicking knowledge' comfort. M$ business model is a threat to our
freedom, and i would like our childrens to have a choice, and not be
formated the M$ way.

There is no patting, accolade nor felicitations to give to M$ for sp2. 
Its 6 years late, and has scared many consumer pc users, and has turned the
internet in a giant malware collection. And i should thank em for
sp2 ? No WAY. I am still getting nimda probes .....

Wake UP before its too LATE.
My 2 cents.

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