Message-ID: <41F77F8A.2060000@sbcglobal.net>
From: stevex11 at sbcglobal.net (Steve Kudlak)
Subject: hushmail.com, is this true? (Libraries, The
	Patriot Act, Forcoing Issues Etc.) (RAL for some)

Pseudo Nym wrote:

>This is from an earlier e-mail I drafted but did not
>send:
>"ah hah, I made another mistake.  I meant Etaoin
>instead of Atte in my last e-mail.  Thank you Etaoin,
>I'm VERY glad to here that you know people who do or
>who have worked there.  That's very comforting.
>
>Anyone else got anything?"
>
>and again, Valdis is correct.  Hushmail isn't claiming
>they won't hand over their logs, they're claiming they
>aren't *making* them, rendering their logs useless if
>seized through a court order.  That is a fairly
>substantial claim for a free e-mail service which is
>why I'm investigating it.
>
>
>--- Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu wrote:
>
>  
>
>>On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:51:07 MST, james edwards
>>said:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>No business can ignore a judges orders to produce
>>>      
>>>
>>whatever required
>>    
>>
>>>information.
>>>The business can contest the request but if it is
>>>      
>>>
>>proven out the information
>>    
>>
>>>must be produced.
>>>      
>>>
>>So tell me - what do you do when you get served a
>>subpoena requesting all
>>your records regarding the development of a
>>specified drug by Pfeizer?
>>
>>Oh. You never *had* those records, because you don't
>>keep them?  I see.... ;)
>>
>>They can't force you to produce information you can
>>prove you don't have...
>>    
>>
>
>
>		
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>  
>
Libraries are doing this in response to the Patriot Act. It used to be 
they kept pretty extensive records in some places and Librarian L could 
tell you if anyone in your small county shared your reading interests. I 
think this has mostly died out thanks to the Patriot Act, which is 
exactly what the person meant when someone said "The US Gestapo legal 
tactics" of saying : "International terrorists use your mail system, 
please send us your logfiles. Oh you're  in another country, well here 
is an obscure treaty your country signed that say you must turn them 
over..."   Most likely they would play the freindly cooperation thing 
first. After that they would say: "Well your country has signed a number 
of treaties and they are at the Federal Level and courts have ruled such 
and such and if  you find yourself in trouble at that level you will 
live to regret it..."

So in general if I needed to keep something quiet I would depend on 
technological countermeasures that I controlled. Oddly, when I have 
offered to people close to me email service that would give them a 
modicum of protection, they are unwilling to give up yahoomail which 
they learned and when ever push comes to even the mildest shove they 
will just cooperate fully and turn over everything. 

The question I would like is what level of  "paranoia" should we be at? 
Right now most people still believe enough in the US in the Bill or 
Rights in the US and other protections elsewhere that no one is getting 
really bent out of shape and invokes any special protections to avoid 
danger? The question is should they do so? And if so is there a  "Plug 
and Play"   PGP or something equaslly as good.  Right now  people seem 
to want ease of use a lot and ignore much of the protection already 
available to them.

Have Fun,
Sends Steve

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