From: ribeiro at microcity.com.br (Jose Ribeiro Junior)
Subject: RES: CISSP Test

Hi Friends, 

What you think about CCIE certification model, practice and write tests ?

I think that is a good model to Security Certifications.

But, can you create a practice tests not using especific vendors ?

-----Mensagem original-----
De: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk]Em nome de Vladamir
Enviada em: quarta-feira, 23 de mar?o de 2005 14:23
Para: DAN MORRILL
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Assunto: Re: [Full-disclosure] CISSP Test


Very good points, so.. who wants to start writing to the mentioned 
organizations about this?

DAN MORRILL wrote:
> I think in reading the multiple threads on this issue, there there are a 
> number of perspectives on the value of the CISSP.
> 
> What was most interesting was the CEO's perspective. Since the CISSP is 
> a boot camp, and the SANS is bootcampable in the longer run with the 
> removal of the practicle. The real question is working towards a 
> certificate that demonstrates ability to work in the security arena, one 
> that is really hard to get, and one that really tests the ability to do 
> the work.
> 
> While CISSP and SANS are great to have as a resume filter, it does not 
> imply that anyone with either certificate to their name can actually do 
> the work. What I am seeing is that many people are going for these, and 
> have them, but had them a result from an IDS system, or ask them to do a 
> security design for either a network or a chunk of code, the ability to 
> actually perform the task is not there, even though they have the 
> certificate.
> 
> Personally, I believe the community needs something, certificate, 
> degree, internship, what ever, that actually means you can perform 
> competently in the security arena. That there is a skill set there that 
> the entire community agree's upon is the minimum recommended skill set 
> to work in this field. If we had something like that, then any school 
> that is pumping out Bachelors of Information Security folks would have a 
> standard. Anyone building a bootcamp or certificate program would have 
> an agreed upon community standard to work with.
> 
> ISC2, ISSA, WSA, SANS, et al. Could build a board in conjunction with 
> the community, develop the minimum qualifications to work in the field, 
> and actually accomplish something once they have been certified or 
> degreed. NSA has been hugely successful in developing security schools 
> through James Madison, Boise, et al. But they have to agree to and teach 
> to the minimum standard that NSA has put together to meet the needs that 
> NSA has identified.
> 
> I think until we as a community agree upon a minimum standard, apply it 
> consistantly across the board much like doctors, lawyers, social 
> workers, and other degreed or licensed professionals, we will continue 
> to have this debate until the house burns down. As security 
> professionals, as security folks, we have the same ability to either do 
> good, or do harm as any other profession does. We need to understand 
> this, and begin working towards skill sets either certificate or degree 
> that actually mean something useful at the end of the day.
> 
> My thoughts, flames invited.
> r/
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes MSN E-mail will indicate that the mesasge failed to be 
> delivered. Please resend when you get those, it does not mean that the 
> mail box is bad, merely that MSN mail is over worked at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: "Clement Dupuis" <cdupuis@...ure.org>
>> To: <robert@...dsecurity.com>,"'Vladamir'" 
>> <wireless.insecurity@...il.com>
>> CC: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
>> Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] CISSP Test
>> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:45:47 -0500
>>
>> Robert E. Lee wrote:
>>
>> "SANS programs have little to do with security.  I'm glad they changed 
>> their
>> policy.  They seem more honest now."
>>
>> Good day Robert,
>>
>> Honesty is a very neat goal to achieve, however it has many facets.
>>
>> I lately learned (under all reserve, please correct me if you know
>> otherwise) that SANS no longer has any NON PROFIT portion left.  They 
>> used
>> to be registered as a non-profit entity in the state of Maryland but it
>> seems that it was dissolved.  Technically we could say there is no SANS
>> Institute left anymore as we knew it on the non profit side.  After they
>> dissolve SANS they created a FOR PROFIT corporation called ESCAL which
>> registered the names used in the non-profit as trademarks for their 
>> new for
>> profit organization.  Even thou you see the name GIAC and SANS being used
>> everywhere, they are all trademark (not organizations) of the new 
>> privately
>> owned company.
>>
>> Principals at SANS have NEVER claimed to be non-profit, it is a myth 
>> that we
>> the people that have been dealing with SANS for a long time (since the 
>> time
>> they were non profit) have been propagating.  We have been keeping 
>> this myth
>> alive simply because we did not know any better and we did not know 
>> that the
>> non-profit was dissolved.  It was done without any noise or public
>> announcement to the people that were already certified.
>>
>> So they NEVER lied but they never went to any length to inform people 
>> of the
>> real and current status of their corporation activity.  Most people think
>> that GIAC is non profit which is not the case anymore and this better
>> explains the decision of dropping the practical requirement: it does not
>> generate money and it is not a good business decision to keep something
>> alive that will become a drain on the bottom line.  Which is a bit 
>> contrary
>> to the reason given of improving the overall state of the security 
>> community
>> :-)
>>
>> Take care
>>
>> Clement
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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