Message-ID: <4241BAD5.7020005@gmail.com>
From: wireless.insecurity at gmail.com (Vladamir)
Subject: RES: CISSP Test

CCIE is where it's at.

I love writing practice tests, but I'm only 20, so what do I know

Jose Ribeiro Junior wrote:
> Hi Friends, 
> 
> What you think about CCIE certification model, practice and write tests ?
> 
> I think that is a good model to Security Certifications.
> 
> But, can you create a practice tests not using especific vendors ?
> 
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
> [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk]Em nome de Vladamir
> Enviada em: quarta-feira, 23 de mar?o de 2005 14:23
> Para: DAN MORRILL
> Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Assunto: Re: [Full-disclosure] CISSP Test
> 
> 
> Very good points, so.. who wants to start writing to the mentioned 
> organizations about this?
> 
> DAN MORRILL wrote:
> 
>>I think in reading the multiple threads on this issue, there there are a 
>>number of perspectives on the value of the CISSP.
>>
>>What was most interesting was the CEO's perspective. Since the CISSP is 
>>a boot camp, and the SANS is bootcampable in the longer run with the 
>>removal of the practicle. The real question is working towards a 
>>certificate that demonstrates ability to work in the security arena, one 
>>that is really hard to get, and one that really tests the ability to do 
>>the work.
>>
>>While CISSP and SANS are great to have as a resume filter, it does not 
>>imply that anyone with either certificate to their name can actually do 
>>the work. What I am seeing is that many people are going for these, and 
>>have them, but had them a result from an IDS system, or ask them to do a 
>>security design for either a network or a chunk of code, the ability to 
>>actually perform the task is not there, even though they have the 
>>certificate.
>>
>>Personally, I believe the community needs something, certificate, 
>>degree, internship, what ever, that actually means you can perform 
>>competently in the security arena. That there is a skill set there that 
>>the entire community agree's upon is the minimum recommended skill set 
>>to work in this field. If we had something like that, then any school 
>>that is pumping out Bachelors of Information Security folks would have a 
>>standard. Anyone building a bootcamp or certificate program would have 
>>an agreed upon community standard to work with.
>>
>>ISC2, ISSA, WSA, SANS, et al. Could build a board in conjunction with 
>>the community, develop the minimum qualifications to work in the field, 
>>and actually accomplish something once they have been certified or 
>>degreed. NSA has been hugely successful in developing security schools 
>>through James Madison, Boise, et al. But they have to agree to and teach 
>>to the minimum standard that NSA has put together to meet the needs that 
>>NSA has identified.
>>
>>I think until we as a community agree upon a minimum standard, apply it 
>>consistantly across the board much like doctors, lawyers, social 
>>workers, and other degreed or licensed professionals, we will continue 
>>to have this debate until the house burns down. As security 
>>professionals, as security folks, we have the same ability to either do 
>>good, or do harm as any other profession does. We need to understand 
>>this, and begin working towards skill sets either certificate or degree 
>>that actually mean something useful at the end of the day.
>>
>>My thoughts, flames invited.
>>r/
>>Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>Sometimes MSN E-mail will indicate that the mesasge failed to be 
>>delivered. Please resend when you get those, it does not mean that the 
>>mail box is bad, merely that MSN mail is over worked at the time.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Clement Dupuis" <cdupuis@...ure.org>
>>>To: <robert@...dsecurity.com>,"'Vladamir'" 
>>><wireless.insecurity@...il.com>
>>>CC: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
>>>Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] CISSP Test
>>>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:45:47 -0500
>>>
>>>Robert E. Lee wrote:
>>>
>>>"SANS programs have little to do with security.  I'm glad they changed 
>>>their
>>>policy.  They seem more honest now."
>>>
>>>Good day Robert,
>>>
>>>Honesty is a very neat goal to achieve, however it has many facets.
>>>
>>>I lately learned (under all reserve, please correct me if you know
>>>otherwise) that SANS no longer has any NON PROFIT portion left.  They 
>>>used
>>>to be registered as a non-profit entity in the state of Maryland but it
>>>seems that it was dissolved.  Technically we could say there is no SANS
>>>Institute left anymore as we knew it on the non profit side.  After they
>>>dissolve SANS they created a FOR PROFIT corporation called ESCAL which
>>>registered the names used in the non-profit as trademarks for their 
>>>new for
>>>profit organization.  Even thou you see the name GIAC and SANS being used
>>>everywhere, they are all trademark (not organizations) of the new 
>>>privately
>>>owned company.
>>>
>>>Principals at SANS have NEVER claimed to be non-profit, it is a myth 
>>>that we
>>>the people that have been dealing with SANS for a long time (since the 
>>>time
>>>they were non profit) have been propagating.  We have been keeping 
>>>this myth
>>>alive simply because we did not know any better and we did not know 
>>>that the
>>>non-profit was dissolved.  It was done without any noise or public
>>>announcement to the people that were already certified.
>>>
>>>So they NEVER lied but they never went to any length to inform people 
>>>of the
>>>real and current status of their corporation activity.  Most people think
>>>that GIAC is non profit which is not the case anymore and this better
>>>explains the decision of dropping the practical requirement: it does not
>>>generate money and it is not a good business decision to keep something
>>>alive that will become a drain on the bottom line.  Which is a bit 
>>>contrary
>>>to the reason given of improving the overall state of the security 
>>>community
>>>:-)
>>>
>>>Take care
>>>
>>>Clement
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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>>
>>
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>>
> 
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