Message-ID: <428B3FD0.8030606@tvog.net>
Date: Fri May 20 00:50:45 2005
From: laszlof at tvog.net (Frank Laszlo)
Subject: Security benefits of spliting services between
	two ISP providers

You never really want to utilize 100% of your bandwidth, you should 
always have some "extra" bandwidth "just in case." Sure, there are costs 
involved, but as a business, surely one could make the decision on 
whether or not to push it as an expense, or take the risk of only having 
1 connection. I personally wouldnt split the services between the two 
ISPs, I would simple have another connection for those "just in case" 
situations. If a business relies heavily on internet, you shouldnt be 
worried about a few extra bucks for a redundent connection. Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
    Frank

Rossen S. Naydenov wrote:

>I see what you mean guys.
>
>But still I think there are some other things to consider.
>Having two online ISP connections doubles the possibility of having bad
>happening to you (attacks, floods, etc.), right?
>
>On the other hand when speaking about bandwidth utilization things are
>different. Let's see the two options:
>First option - One ISP online and one offline
>	- Say we have 3Mbps online and that's it - both services will
>share that bandwidth.
>Second option - Two ISP online
>	- Say 2Mbps for business purposes on first ISP and 1Mbps for
>other purposes on the second ISP.
>
>But when speaking for total bandwidth I see that in the second option
>total bandwidth is 2Mbps, while in first total is 3Mbps. What about
>that?
>
>In case of failure of one ISP (second option) we will have 2/3 or even
>1/3 of the bandwidth we need... Having two ISP online with 3Mbps
>available bandwidth is not good, because we will not be able to utilize
>it.
>
>Rossen
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Reece Mills [mailto:reece.mills@...rter.net] 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:38 PM
>To: Dave Hawkins; laszlof@...g.net; Rossen S. Naydenov
>Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Security benefits of spliting services
>between two ISP providers
>
>Dave,
>You and Frank have both made excellent points. Utilization of bandwidth 
>and risk reduction through splitting services across providers.  I guess
>
>I had taken a particularly narrow view in my initial response.
>
>Splitting of services across different ISP's is not a bad idea.  My note
>
>vaguely addressed that.  If a cost to benefit evaluation supports an 
>entity utilizing two separate ISP's.  My question would be, Is this 
>extra expenditure  necessary for the organization?  An SLA with one ISP 
>might be enough to accomplish a logical space split for a fraction of 
>the costs of buying two SLA's from two providers.  Now, if you are in an
>
>area that is prone to natural and man made disasters (fires, flooding, 
>earthquakes and bombings) and since you are a global entity, then by all
>
>means split services as described.  However, if that is the case then 
>full redundancy would be my goal.
>
>My apologies for the terse initial response.  Sleep is a good thing and 
>I will try to get more of it.
>
>Reece
>
>
>
>Dave Hawkins wrote:
>
>  
>
>>In the case of DDoS, if your web services are targeted, your email
>>systems would still have plenty of bandwidth (splitting services in
>>    
>>
>that
>  
>
>>way). Segmenting services like this would pose no real threat from a
>>security standpoint, and in my opinion, only allows you to more fully
>>utilize both lines that you're already paying for. In the case of
>>actual ISP failures, it is quite easy to use something like the Radware
>>LinkProof or WSD to handle complete fail-over to other network
>>providers. It can be (and is) easily done with a lot of our clients who
>>require high-availability for disasters, but also to prevent someone
>>    
>>
>>from saturating a particular ISP link. Combine this with a
>  
>
>>multi-segment IPS and you can minimize your risks greatly.
>>Don't misinterpret this as a plug for our products, but Radware has
>>    
>>
>been
>  
>
>>in the high-availability and security space for a while now, and we get
>>these kinds of questions all the time.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>-Dave Hawkins
>>Security Engineer
>>Radware
>>http://www.radware.com
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
>>[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of Frank
>>Laszlo
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:04 AM
>>To: Reece Mills
>>Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Security benefits of spliting services
>>between two ISP providers
>>
>>Not exactly. If one ISP fails, the other could be used as a backup
>>system for the services that are on the "failed" isp. This could be
>>    
>>
>done
>  
>
>>with a transparent proxy or something of the sort.
>>
>>Regards,
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>Reece Mills wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Only part of what you need will be affected if one of your ISPs
>>fail....  Hope it is not the web based business services provider...
>>Hope it
>>is not the email provider....   
>>Ok... What will be the security benefit of splitting services between
>>two ISP providers as you described?
>>
>>Nothing.
>>
>>Reece
>>
>>
>>Rossen S. Naydenov wrote:
>>
>>|Hi group,
>>|
>>|What will be the security benefit of splitting services between two
>>|ISP providers?
>>|By splitting services I mean have one ISP serve only web based
>>|business services and other ISP serve the email and traffic generated
>>
>>
>>|by internal web browsing (or something similar).
>>|Right now everything goes through one ISP and second ISP connection
>>|is kept as a backup.
>>|
>>|Thanks.
>>|
>>|
>>|
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>>
>
>
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>>_______________________________________________
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>Disclaimer:
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>This communication is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication by mistake, please notify us immediately by responding to this email and then delete it from your system.
>Bulgarian Post Bank is not responsible for, nor endorses, any opinion, recommendation, conclusion, solicitation, offer or agreement or any information contained in this communication.
>Bulgarian Post Bank cannot accept any responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of this message as it has been transmitted over a public network. If you suspect that the message may have been intercepted or amended, please call the sender.
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