full-disclosure - [Clips] A small editorial about recent events. (fwd)

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date: Mon Dec 19 11:09:12 2005
From: jpole at jcpa.com (Jamie C. Pole)
Subject: [Clips] A small editorial about recent events.
	(fwd)

I don't see how that can be the case - 90% of the time, I am in these  
foreign countries at the request of their government.  I am in an  
excellent position to make such comparisons.

I like Spain (and Russia, and Singapore) very much, but at the same  
time, shouldn't a Spaniard be concerned that their government is so  
willing to manufacture evidence in order to obtain a conviction?  It  
scared the heck out of me!  I'm not saying that law enforcement in  
the US (especially state & local, the Federal agencies to a lesser  
extent) doesn't ever do the same thing, but I have never experienced  
the level of nonchalance regarding falsifying evidence that I saw in  
Spain.  I simply provided three anecdotes, and Spain was one of the  
ones that popped into my head.  With the exception of Greece, I think  
I could have come up with at least one for every country I have  
worked in.  Greece is almost paradise...  :-)

There is no way that I can be accused of having "a total lack of  
information about anything that is outside the US".  A significant  
portion of my career has been spent working and teaching outside the  
US.  I'm also not one of the Americans that expects every foreign  
country to speak English.  In many cases, I speak the language that  
is spoken in the country I'm working in.  I'm definitely ashamed when  
I watch an indignant American treating a waiter or bellman (for  
example) poorly because he or she does not speak English.

My knowledge of these countries is direct, first hand.  I didn't pop  
into a Barnes & Noble store to pick up a Fodor's Country Guide.  In  
comparing all of the places I have lived and worked in, the USA would  
be my choice.  I know that there are around a hundred or so countries  
that I have not visited, so I can't comment on them.  Nor would I try.

Jamie

On Dec 19, 2005, at 3:05 AM, David Barroso wrote:

> Hey Jamie,
> perhaps it is true that you have lived in 24 countries, but saying  
> that
> Spain is worse than US, or simply compare Spain to Singapore or Russia
> in terms of "democracy" denotes a total lack of information about
> anything that is outside the US.
>
> On dom, 2005-12-18 at 22:55 -0600, Jamie C. Pole wrote:
>> Well, some of the more recent ones were as follows:
>>
>> 1) Singapore, where the Immigration card has "Drug Traffickers will
>> be put to death" in big red letters on the back.  When I was there,
>> possession of chewing gum was also illegal, and categorized as a
>> controlled substance.  By the way, you can be fined or jailed for
>> having a pool of standing water where mosquitos might breed.
>>
>> 2) Russia, where the militia (like city-wide police - not Federal)
>> routinely beat and torture innocent suspects regardless of the
>> severity of their supposed crimes.  These same militia officers often
>> pull over expensive cars in order to get the drivers to bribe them
>> into not giving them a ticket for something they didn't even do.
>>
>> 3) Spain, where a Federal government investigator contested some of
>> my forensic findings by stating "Si no existe la evidencia, la
>> haremos para arriba. Cualquier manera, ?l es culpable." (Roughly,
>> "Even if the evidence does not exist, we will make it up.  He is
>> going to be found guilty either way.").  When the case went to court,
>> that is exactly what they did.
>>
>> There have been quite a few others, but those are some highlights...
>>
>> Jamie
>>
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2005, at 10:41 PM, Dude VanWinkle wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Which other countries have you lived in? What was your experience
>>> there that made you feel this way?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
> -- 
> David Barroso Berrueta
> S21Sec - M?vil: 678760142
> Not one day goes by that I don't ride, 'til the infinite, the horse of
> my imagination