Date: Wed Dec 28 13:59:20 2005
From: leife at dls.net (Leif Ericksen)
Subject: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove

Actually after reading some of the the comments I have to say you all
missed the point...  *IF* you are not doing *nothing illegal* and have
nothing to hide no big deal.

"I do not want the Government to see my banking info"
HUM, did you ever hear of the SSN?  Are you putting massive amounts of
cash that can not be accounted for into your bank?  BUT wait what is the
limit it used to be $10,000US that if you moved that much money you had
to fill out some papers as to why you were moving that money.  So the
government will know.

Bottom line there will me so much 'noise' if the listen to everything
they will loose track of legitimate deviant traffic.  The only monitor
so much of it and then turn off the listening until the system wakes up.

Again, if all you actions are legit they will soon go away and leave you
alone.  The old joke on the net like 10 years ago was to add lines like
Death Bomb Kill Destroy, White House, nuclear, waste, President, Give
names of current or recent past presidents, Bush, Clinton, Regan, Nixon
Ford, etc.   Those supposedly activated the echelon system.

Also thinking back to a security to a class I had in computer security
(now I may date myself just a little) Back in 1988 The instructor
mentioned how the NSA monitors ALL traffic from the US to an overseas
source, even more so banking traffic.  Well one time a Bank had some
agents visit them demanding the key to the encryption they used to send
something over seas.  Well the laugh was on the NSA.  According to this
instructor, that company said to the NSA all we did us used crypt on the
VAX.  The NSA agent(s) said thank you and left.

Now maybe I am being monitored at this time and will be for some time
because of this message.  NO big deal to me.  I intend no harm, at least
until the government tries to control what I do when I do it and how I
do it. (I see a day like that coming, I feel it will be of dare I say
the word on this list???  Biblical proportions)  It is inevitable, in
general humans are stupid.  Go to the Darwin Awards web page and see for
yourself.  At times the Darwin principle of the stupid and the weak
creatures die off and only the strong genes survive does not always
apply to the human race.  We keep doing stupid things, and one day we
are going to have a massive fight in the world and blow the whole dang
thing up.  Then again maybe the alien's that ALL governments seem to
cover up the existence of will soon get ticked off at us and come and
destroy our planet (Star Trek anyone?) go so that the human parasite
will not come out and destroy their worlds. (MY planet! my land, no my
land, mine, no mine, no mine)

I will admit this...  I live in a state where we have an electronic
device in our car that is used on the tollway that pays your fees for
being on the road.  Well, that devices has time stamps for when you
passed through the booth, and is registered to your car(S) well, if it
is 3 miles from one booth to the next that would be 3 minutes at 60MPH
So if you make it from one booth to the next in less that 3 minutes you
are speeding, but then again you are already because your are supposed
to go 15MPH through most booths and about 1 mile from the booth you are
supposed to slow down to 40MPH and I think at .5 miles from the booth
you are supposed to slow down to 30MPH.  I will admit that I often find
myself going in excess of 60MPH on the highway. sometimes even over 80
and that is because I am afraid I am going to get hit by the moron(s)
doing 90+ For the autobahn drivers or other places where such speeds may
be the norm.  Our roadways are not really designed for that even more so
in the winter with snow and ice.


--
Leif

On Tue, 2005-12-27 at 12:11 -0800, Kurt Buff wrote:
> Rodrigo Barbosa wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at 10:11:45PM -0600, Leif Ericksen wrote:
> > 
> >>>Really if we have nothing to hide we should not fear them listening to
> >>>us.  Now if they come in and start forcing a special mark or code word
> >>>or something special in order to live or buy or sell anything then it is
> >>>time to revolt.
> > 
> > 
> > Now, that is an interesting view of someone who really is not paying
> > attention.
> > 
> > What would you qualify as "something to hide" ? How about my banking
> > account data ? How about the trade secrets of my company ?
> 
> Interesting line of argument, but really beside the point. You are
> correct that Leif has taken the wrong line of argument, but you yourself
>  haven't quite got it right.
> 
> Leif speaks as if the government has a right to monitor our thoughts.
> Such a stance indicates that we are property of (a|the) government.
> 
> Just the opposite is true. The just government serves at the pleasure of
> its citizens, and must not be allowed any more power than what is
> strictly necessary, if any at all.
> 
> For the US, the 4th Amendment applies, and all of the history
> surrounding it - secure in papers and effects, unreasonable
> search/seizure, etc.
> 
> The recent NSA actions (and older programs, too, such as Echelon), taken
> at the behest of Presidential directive, are clearly illegal, and
> destructive of the relationship between citizens and their government.
> 
> The 1st Amendment also applies, in that free speech can also be private,
> with unauthorized others excluded, for whatever reason, and/or
> anonymous. If government intrudes, it has an unwarranted chilling effect.
> 
> Kurt
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-- 
Leif Ericksen <leife@....net>

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