full-disclosure - complaints about the governemnt spying!

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Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0512300301440.4232@vipunen.hut.fi>
Date: Fri Dec 30 01:42:11 2005
From: jei at cc.hut.fi (Jei)
Subject: complaints about the governemnt spying!

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, Benjamin Krueger wrote:

> * Leif Ericksen (leife@....net) [051229 12:47]:
>> That is a good question...  but showing and ID is good enough for you to
>> purchase alcohol if you are 21 or over in the US.  Folks are supposedly
>> trained to be able to spot fakes as well they have a book available to
>> compare them against if they are unsure.
>>
>> So with a good fake ID a person can make it on the transport.  With a
>> fake name and a fake id they can again.  It just raises the difficulty
>> level a bit.
>>
>> Now with air travel how hard is it for an East German or say a
>> Palestinian to travel on the Israeli Airlines (what is its name again)
>> How about even a US citizen of E German decent or has a VISA stamp from
>> a country that Israel considers hostile.  Personally I would only know
>> from what I have seen on the net can anybody tell us of first hand
>> experiences?
>>
>> --
>> Leif
>
> Every member of the 9/11 suicide team showed ID at the gate. Again, how 
> does showing a valid ID increase safety?
>
> If you look for Palestinians at the gate, your enemy will simply recruit 
> someone who is not Palestinian to do the job.

Well, for one example, it creates an easy way to stop the approx. 100,000 
persons (suspect 'terrorists' and political anti-government activistists) 
currently enjoying the no-fly list's membership, banning them from 
traveling by air and possibly discouraging them from creating trouble. 
The chance of it catching or preventing terrorism is zero, and is it's 
purpose in name-only. The list, however, discourages a lot of problematic 
people from effectively creating trouble for the government and gives
an effective and non-judicially governed way of directly targetting and 
punishing select individuals, while leaving them no recourse of action.

The no-fly lists are an effective means to an end and a solution to a 
problem, just not the one they are publicly advertised for.

The real terrorists would, of course, just use stolen or fake passports
as they have in the past.

// Jei