full-disclosure - Re: What do you guys make of this?

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Message-ID: <009101c7f0db$9c544160$d4fcc420$@com>
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 18:13:54 -0500
From: "Joel R. Helgeson" <joel@...geson.com>
To: "'Timo Schoeler'" <timo.schoeler@...cworks.net>,
	<full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: What do you guys make of this?

Not sure if it came across in the email, but for the record: I love Russia,
always have.
Growing up in the cold war, I never figured out why we were supposed to fear
them. I loved the USSR Military hardware, admired how well it worked, the
elegant simplicity. The MIG-29 Fulcrum was astounding. My favorite plane
though was the F-15.

-----Original Message-----
From: Timo Schoeler [mailto:timo.schoeler@...cworks.net] 
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 6:17 PM
To: Joel R. Helgeson; full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What do you guys make of this?

thus Joel R. Helgeson spake:

>> There was a time in foreign policy where no country, no diplomat would
make
>> a foreign policy decision without first asking "what does Russia think of
>> this?".

> No. It was 'Soviet Union', not 'Russia'.

So what, America, USA, you know what I'm talking about

>> Well, Russia is no longer a super power,

> Well, actually, it is. It has thousands of nuclear warheads, it has more 
> advanced fighter jets and bombers than the US, it has more advanced 
> space technology and ICBMs, submarines, education & healthcare...

> It has _plenty_ of ressources the US has to go to war for (natural gas, 
>oil, etc).

Overly simplistic thinking. Nations don't go to war over natural resources
anymore. In the 1930's, yes, a country was the sum total of its natural
resources - including people which were used for manual labor. Now, it is
the PEOPLE who create value now.

>> the fall from which left
>> Putin feeling excluded. He's always wanted to get Russia back to
superpower
>> status, he wants his Mother Russia to be significant again.

>Propaganda.

LOL, no, it's called reality.

>> For years, the Russian economy was cash strapped.

>No. It suffered from a few people that stole what the people's was.

It had no exports, no economy. The tax system was crazy so people simply did
not pay. This bankrupted the government.

>> Just recently Putin
>> revamped the entire tax system and implemented a 12% flat tax. For the
first
>> time since the collapse, the tax revenues are POURING in. They now have
>> enough gas to fuel a plane, and now they want to get back into being
viewed
>> as a superpower, to be 'feared', they desperately want to matter again,
to
>> be important.

I see you have no response to this.

>> So, they're acting out in an aggressive manner - using tried and true
cold
>> war era tactics.  It comes across to me as childish, throwing a fit just
to
>> get attention.

> If _that_ is childish, what is the US's behaviour then? Oh, sorry, I 
> forgot: Children usually don't rape, kill and spread war^H^H^Hdemocracy.

America is doing what it has always done. Fighting for the freedom of
others. War is always ugly, but not as ugly as standing by and letting evil
flourish.

>> It is not propaganda, Russia is just trying to say "We're
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
>> And this time, we've got 31337 H4x0rz!"

> Blah. Blahblah.

:)

> Joel Helgeson
> 952-858-9111

9/11?

Yup

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