full-disclosure - Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:00:27 -0600
From: Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists@...rr.com>
To: full-disclosure <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: How Prosecutors Wiretap Wall Street

--On Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:59:09 -0600 "Gary E. Miller" 
<gem@...lim.com> wrote:

>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Yo Paul!
>
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Paul Schmehl wrote:
>
>> No.  But I can distinguish between an American citizen and someone living in
>> America who may be involved in terrorist activity.  And so can the courts.
>
> I would rather live on your planet, but I am stuck on this one.
>
> If you understand what an NSL is you understnad the courts have no say in it.
>

If you understand what an NSL is then you know that it is applied to an 
infinitesimal portion of the US population.  And you also understand that it 
has to do with *investigation* and not prosecution.  If there is to be a 
prosecution as a result of an NSL then the courts are indeed involved and get 
to decide whether or not the NSL was legal and justified.

That's the world we both live in.  There has been much hot air about NSLs, and, 
as with any governmental behavior, there have been abuses, but the number of 
American citizens who have been wrongly convicted as a result of the 
application of an NSL is zero - unless you can show a documented case of the 
same - and I'm not referring to the bluster and speculation of the news media.

In a country with a population over 300 million, the chances of an ordinary 
citizen being wiretapped without a court order are essentially non-existent.

IOW, as I stated originally, I'm not worried about it.  And as the OP implied, 
all 300 million of us need to be worried about it.  That was the point I was 
taking issue with.

It's essentially the same argument as - I don't want system admins to have 
access to my data because then they can look at it without my knowledge or 
permission (which is true), when sysadmins barely have time to get the work 
done much less snoop around in your stuff.

I seriously doubt the FBI will be wiretapping anyone on this list that isn't 
doing something illegal.

-- 
Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst
As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions
are my own and not those of my employer.
*******************************************
"It is as useless to argue with those who have
renounced the use of reason as to administer
medication to the dead." Thomas Jefferson

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/