Message-ID: <optid.47838e5811.58DB1B68E62B9F448DF1A276B0886DF12DB5EF5F@EX2010.hammerofgod.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:09:53 +0000
From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <Thor@...merofgod.com>
To: T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com>
Cc: "full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk" <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Congratulations Andrew

"Acceptable use" and "reasonable and customary" clauses, plus a host of other legal associations.

I'm not disputing the *logic* behind what you are saying - I would have to say that I of all people think that if you have a search box, that it is perfectly "legal" for me to type 'or 1=1-into it without fear of some whimpering jackass calling the cops on you--  I'm just noting that there is *no law* that explicitly grants you legal right to data simply because it is not otherwise protected.

It was your use of "legal right" that I was disputing.  The unfortunate truth is that we live in a world where the owner of the asset, even if they can't properly deploy or secure a site, is the one who gets to determine what access was being granted, and what access exceeds their intended usage.

Sorry if my "complete horse hockey" response was a bit strong :)
t

From: T Biehn [mailto:tbiehn@...il.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:59 PM
To: Thor (Hammer of God)
Cc: wilder_jeff Wilder; full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Congratulations Andrew

So what grants you legal access to aol.com<http://aol.com> (HTTP port 80 get / )?
I'm confused? Does search engine indexing grant legal access to online resources?

-Travis
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Thor (Hammer of God) <Thor@...merofgod.com<mailto:Thor@...merofgod.com>> wrote:
By the same logic, then yes you would.  Which is why the statement "if a system has no password, then you have a legal right to whatever data is on it" is complete horse hockey.

Don't take technical advice from your lawyer, and don't take legal advice from people on security lists.

t

From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk<mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk> [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk<mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk>] On Behalf Of wilder_jeff Wilder
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:56 AM
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk<mailto:full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>

Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Congratulations Andrew


By that same standard.. if you leave your house unlocked.... does that give someone the right to enter it?

just my thoughts
________________________________
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:58:27 +0200
From: uuf6429@...il.com<mailto:uuf6429@...il.com>
To: tbiehn@...il.com<mailto:tbiehn@...il.com>
CC: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk<mailto:full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>; Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu<mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Congratulations Andrew

Reminds be of Al Capone and tax evasion ;-)

Good ol' America.


On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 7:49 PM, T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com<mailto:tbiehn@...il.com>> wrote:
Yes.
The FBI was investigating the AT&T incident, presumably the AT&T incident was what the fed were serving against.
What possible valid search warrant could be executed? There was no hack, breach, illegal access of data, or anything else for that matter.

If you leave a system online with no password which allows you to scrape content you have a legal right to scrape that content.

-Travis

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu<mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:09:22 EDT, T Biehn said:

> I doubt the search warrant will hold up in court.
Do you have any actual basis for saying that?  Sure, the warrant might be
bullshit, it might be solid - the article doesn't give us enough info either
way to tell.

"Auernheimer was also arrested in March for giving a false name to law
enforcement officers responding to a parking complaint."

Sad.  The dude may have the intelligence to pull the hack, but not have the
wisdom to not dig a hole deeper. Just man up and take the frikking parking
ticket. ;)


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