Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:24:29 +0200
From: Christian Sciberras <uuf6429@...il.com>
To: T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com>
Cc: "full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk" <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>,
	"Thor \(Hammer of God\)" <Thor@...merofgod.com>
Subject: Re: Congratulations Andrew

So you're telling us we should all be getting our cupboards filled with
drugs so the next time we deface Whitehouse we get away with *just* drug
trafficking?

I'm not arguing that they were right or not, I'm just saying that a felony
is to be tried, regardless of conditions (it's how democracy should work
anyway).

That said, I also agree, no one should be stupid enough to mess up with
corporate servers and drugs at the same time, especially if s/he knows
they're after him.





On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:17 PM, T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com> wrote:

> Lets just call a spade a spade here:
> AT&T got butthurt at the media ruin and forced the man to come down hard on
> someone.
> A perfect someone to restore public faith in the order of the world was
> Weev.
>
> So AT&Ts lawyers drafted some bum legal pretense under which to raid weev
> looking for some related incriminating content and handed it off to the
> cops. Of course they were going to find something illegal on his premises,
> have you seen half the shit he writes online?
>
> This is another instance of Corporate Policy leading to unjustified
> Policing action; it is the second such occurrence in the past few months.
> Maybe AT&T schooled Apple in mobile networking and in turn Apple schooled
> AT&T in corporate control of public police forces.
>
> -Travis
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 4:12 PM, T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com> wrote:
>
>> Furthermore if I access an online resource and I notice that the
>> information ends and the URL has a &page=1 on the end and no link exists on
>> that page to say... &page=2 is that illegal?
>> On the same note, if I notice something that looks like a SELECT statement
>> in a URL (due to excellent coding) is it illegal for me to modify that
>> SELECT statement to return other information?
>> Is the legality of access to the resource something that must be
>> explicitly granted to me or is it some abstract property depending on the
>> content I've accessed? Is it legal to randomly fuzz web service arguments
>> without knowing the data that it will return?
>>
>> Usually systems of this nature will have an EXPLICIT notice that you
>> cannot access data on it unless you're authorized OR will require (as it
>> does now) authentication.
>>
>> Did the ICCID count as authentication if it is not explicitly labeled by
>> AT&T as such? A field like:
>> &password would clearly be illegal to brute force.
>>
>> An analogy to a case with CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY defined law regarding
>> private property doesn't really seem to fit.
>>
>> -Travis
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:58 PM, T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So what grants you legal access to aol.com (HTTP port 80 get / )?
>>> I'm confused? Does search engine indexing grant legal access to online
>>> resources?
>>>
>>> -Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Thor (Hammer of God) <
>>> Thor@...merofgod.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> By the same logic, then yes you would.  Which is why the statement “if a
>>>> system has no password, then you have a legal right to whatever data is on
>>>> it” is complete horse hockey.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don’t take technical advice from your lawyer, and don’t take legal
>>>> advice from people on security lists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> t
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk [mailto:
>>>> full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *wilder_jeff
>>>> Wilder
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:56 AM
>>>> *To:* full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Full-disclosure] Congratulations Andrew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> By that same standard.. if you leave your house unlocked.... does that
>>>> give someone the right to enter it?
>>>>
>>>> just my thoughts
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:58:27 +0200
>>>> From: uuf6429@...il.com
>>>> To: tbiehn@...il.com
>>>> CC: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk; Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu
>>>> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Congratulations Andrew
>>>>
>>>> Reminds be of Al Capone and tax evasion ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Good ol' America.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 7:49 PM, T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>> The FBI was investigating the AT&T incident, presumably the AT&T
>>>> incident was what the fed were serving against.
>>>> What possible valid search warrant could be executed? There was no hack,
>>>> breach, illegal access of data, or anything else for that matter.
>>>>
>>>> If you leave a system online with no password which allows you to scrape
>>>> content you have a legal right to scrape that content.
>>>>
>>>> -Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:09:22 EDT, T Biehn said:
>>>>
>>>> > I doubt the search warrant will hold up in court.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have any actual basis for saying that?  Sure, the warrant might
>>>> be
>>>> bullshit, it might be solid - the article doesn't give us enough info
>>>> either
>>>> way to tell.
>>>>
>>>> "Auernheimer was also arrested in March for giving a false name to law
>>>> enforcement officers responding to a parking complaint."
>>>>
>>>> Sad.  The dude may have the intelligence to pull the hack, but not have
>>>> the
>>>> wisdom to not dig a hole deeper. Just man up and take the frikking
>>>> parking
>>>> ticket. ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> FD1D E574 6CAB 2FAF 2921  F22E B8B7 9D0D 99FF A73C
>>>>
>>>> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=tbiehn&op=index&fingerprint=on
>>>> http://pastebin.com/f6fd606da
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
>>>> inbox. Get started.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> FD1D E574 6CAB 2FAF 2921  F22E B8B7 9D0D 99FF A73C
>>> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=tbiehn&op=index&fingerprint=on
>>> http://pastebin.com/f6fd606da
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> FD1D E574 6CAB 2FAF 2921  F22E B8B7 9D0D 99FF A73C
>> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=tbiehn&op=index&fingerprint=on
>> http://pastebin.com/f6fd606da
>>
>
>
>
> --
> FD1D E574 6CAB 2FAF 2921  F22E B8B7 9D0D 99FF A73C
> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=tbiehn&op=index&fingerprint=on
> http://pastebin.com/f6fd606da
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>

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