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Message-ID: <4E847063.6040003@oneechan.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 08:19:31 -0500
From: Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org>
To: Darren Martyn <d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: VPN provider helped track down alleged
LulzSec member
On 9/29/2011 3:51 AM, Darren Martyn wrote:
> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some
> talented programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more
> interesting was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the
> developers and coders and potential recruits in a channel named "Pure
> Elite", it was essentially an ego boost for the new guys, made them
> feel valued, etc, when in fact most were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>
> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing
> new - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of
> us who are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>
> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all
> there is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go
> assuming that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
> Good day.
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm <laurelai@...echan.org
> <mailto:laurelai@...echan.org>> wrote:
>
> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers
> might give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to
> look better and better.
>
> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD" <doomxd@...il.com
> <mailto:doomxd@...il.com>> wrote:
> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle
> pissed and
> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
> hopefully it
> > is just, cool.
> > :)
> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
> > take care ,
> > xd
> >
> >
> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm
> <laurelai@...echan.org <mailto:laurelai@...echan.org>> wrote:
> >
> >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
> >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD" <doomxd@...il.com
> <mailto:doomxd@...il.com>> wrote:
> >> > Hello Laurelai ,
> >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I
> dont even know
> >> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
> >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
> >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is
> not just
> >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and
> privacy, in my
> >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
> >> >
> >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a
> huge
> >> torrent
> >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but
> by the
> >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
> >> >
> >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is
> 'anon' and what
> >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
> >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing
> places like
> >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to
> politics, whom
> >> in
> >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i
> think this
> >> is
> >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or
> whoever was apart
> >> of
> >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
> >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but
> not alone
> >> by
> >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout
> now..and, that
> >> is
> >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
> >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without
> realising,
> >> asked
> >> > a friend, to code for them.
> >> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the
> module running
> >> now.
> >> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode
> to it :s look
> >> at
> >> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced
> drinemon and a
> >> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked
> out with
> >> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this
> is mutual
> >> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn,
> expect the
> >> same.
> >> > Respect for respect dear.
> >> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see,
> am not
> >> holding
> >> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago,
> over one
> >> idiotic
> >> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So,
> i want
> >> that,
> >> > to be laid rest now.. please.
> >> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will
> prevail and
> >> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some
> way, wether
> >> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's
> of peoples
> >> > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard
> for VPN, I
> >> do
> >> > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
> >> that,without
> >> > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is
> now legal and
> >> not
> >> > legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
> >> > ok, thats plenty, cheers!
> >> > xd
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org
> <mailto:laurelai@...echan.org>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that
> crapy hma.
> >> >> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs" <tyra3l@...il.com
> <mailto:tyra3l@...il.com>> wrote:
> >> >> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD
> <doomxd@...il.com <mailto:doomxd@...il.com>> wrote:
> >> >> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
> >> >> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel
> thing... why
> >> do
> >> >> ppl
> >> >> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
> >> >> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
> >> >> >> xd
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
> >> >> >> <d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com
> <mailto:d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com>> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all...
> But seeing as
> >> it
> >> >> is
> >> >> >>> an international investigation many people have been
> bending over
> >> >> backwards
> >> >> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the
> VPN's of
> >> choice
> >> >> for
> >> >> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the
> #pure-elite channel
> >> on
> >> >> that
> >> >> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as
> "Part of
> >> >> LulzSec".
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm <
> >> laurelai@...echan.org <mailto:laurelai@...echan.org>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"
> <noloader@...il.com <mailto:noloader@...il.com>>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .
> <ivanhec@...il.com <mailto:ivanhec@...il.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>>> >>
> >> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
> >> >> >>>> > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order,
> it looks as
> >> if
> >> >> >>>> > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US
> and the FBI
> >> have
> >> >> no
> >> >> >>>> > jurisdiction in the UK.
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > Jeff
> >> >> >>>> >
> >> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >>>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> >> >>>> > Charter:
> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> >> >>>> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> >> >>>> Charter:
> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> >> >>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> >> >>> Charter:
> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> >> >>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> >> >> Charter:
> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Ferenc Kovács
> >> >> > @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> >> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> >> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >> >>
> >> >> >From my understanding they used the channel as a possible
> recruitment
> >> >> ground, though only 6 people were officially a part of
> lulzsec , i find
> >> it
> >> >> disturbing that law enforcement considers being in an irc
> channel
> >> tantamount
> >> >> to being a part of lulzsec.
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >> >>
> >>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
>
I don't assume i know everything about them, and I'm all for hearing
other points of view so i bear no ill will for your comments and im
happy to hear any insights people have on this matter :) What I do know
however is Kayla's perspective of the situation as she told me and what
Ive gathered with public information. When i say the guy was never a
part of lulzsec i mean it in the respect that Kayla never considered him
a member, they didn't consider people in the pure elite channel to be
members and you are right that they were potential recruits but only 6
people were considered actual members of lulzsec and that's according to
Kayla, if she was telling me the truth and her information was accurate
then this person was never really a part of their group.
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