Message-ID: <4E847063.6040003@oneechan.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 08:19:31 -0500
From: Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org>
To: Darren Martyn <d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: VPN provider helped track down alleged
 LulzSec member

On 9/29/2011 3:51 AM, Darren Martyn wrote:
> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some
> talented programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more
> interesting was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the
> developers and coders and potential recruits in a channel named "Pure
> Elite", it was essentially an ego boost for the new guys, made them
> feel valued, etc, when in fact most were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>
> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing
> new - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of
> us who are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>
> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all
> there is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go
> assuming that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
> Good day.
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm <laurelai@...echan.org
> <mailto:laurelai@...echan.org>> wrote:
>
>     Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers
>     might give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to
>     look better and better.
>
>     On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD" <doomxd@...il.com
>     <mailto:doomxd@...il.com>> wrote:
>     > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle
>     pissed and
>     > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
>     > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
>     hopefully it
>     > is just, cool.
>     > :)
>     > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
>     > take care ,
>     > xd
>     >
>     >
>     > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm
>     <laurelai@...echan.org <mailto:laurelai@...echan.org>> wrote:
>     >
>     >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
>     >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD" <doomxd@...il.com
>     <mailto:doomxd@...il.com>> wrote:
>     >> > Hello Laurelai ,
>     >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I
>     dont even know
>     >> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
>     >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
>     >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is
>     not just
>     >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and
>     privacy, in my
>     >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
>     >> >
>     >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a
>     huge
>     >> torrent
>     >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but
>     by the
>     >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
>     >> >
>     >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is
>     'anon' and what
>     >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
>     >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing
>     places like
>     >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to
>     politics, whom
>     >> in
>     >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i
>     think this
>     >> is
>     >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or
>     whoever was apart
>     >> of
>     >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
>     >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but
>     not alone
>     >> by
>     >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout
>     now..and, that
>     >> is
>     >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
>     >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without
>     realising,
>     >> asked
>     >> > a friend, to code for them.
>     >> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the
>     module running
>     >> now.
>     >> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode
>     to it :s look
>     >> at
>     >> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced
>     drinemon and a
>     >> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked
>     out with
>     >> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this
>     is mutual
>     >> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn,
>     expect the
>     >> same.
>     >> > Respect for respect dear.
>     >> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see,
>     am not
>     >> holding
>     >> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago,
>     over one
>     >> idiotic
>     >> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So,
>     i want
>     >> that,
>     >> > to be laid rest now.. please.
>     >> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will
>     prevail and
>     >> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some
>     way, wether
>     >> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's
>     of peoples
>     >> > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard
>     for VPN, I
>     >> do
>     >> > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
>     >> that,without
>     >> > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is
>     now legal and
>     >> not
>     >> > legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
>     >> > ok, thats plenty, cheers!
>     >> > xd
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org
>     <mailto:laurelai@...echan.org>> wrote:
>     >> >
>     >> >> On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that
>     crapy hma.
>     >> >> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs" <tyra3l@...il.com
>     <mailto:tyra3l@...il.com>> wrote:
>     >> >> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD
>     <doomxd@...il.com <mailto:doomxd@...il.com>> wrote:
>     >> >> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
>     >> >> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel
>     thing... why
>     >> do
>     >> >> ppl
>     >> >> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
>     >> >> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
>     >> >> >> xd
>     >> >> >>
>     >> >> >>
>     >> >> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
>     >> >> >> <d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com
>     <mailto:d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com>> wrote:
>     >> >> >>>
>     >> >> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all...
>     But seeing as
>     >> it
>     >> >> is
>     >> >> >>> an international investigation many people have been
>     bending over
>     >> >> backwards
>     >> >> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the
>     VPN's of
>     >> choice
>     >> >> for
>     >> >> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the
>     #pure-elite channel
>     >> on
>     >> >> that
>     >> >> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as
>     "Part of
>     >> >> LulzSec".
>     >> >> >>>
>     >> >> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
>     >> >> >>>
>     >> >> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm <
>     >> laurelai@...echan.org <mailto:laurelai@...echan.org>
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> >>> wrote:
>     >> >> >>>>
>     >> >> >>>> And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
>     >> >> >>>>
>     >> >> >>>> On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"
>     <noloader@...il.com <mailto:noloader@...il.com>>
>     >> >> wrote:
>     >> >> >>>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .
>     <ivanhec@...il.com <mailto:ivanhec@...il.com>>
>     >> wrote:
>     >> >> >>>> >>
>     >> >> >>>> >>
>     >> >>
>     >>
>     http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
>     >> >> >>>> > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order,
>     it looks as
>     >> if
>     >> >> >>>> > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US
>     and the FBI
>     >> have
>     >> >> no
>     >> >> >>>> > jurisdiction in the UK.
>     >> >> >>>> >
>     >> >> >>>> > Jeff
>     >> >> >>>> >
>     >> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>     >> >> >>>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>     >> >> >>>> > Charter:
>     http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>     >> >> >>>> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>     >> >> >>>>
>     >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>     >> >> >>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>     >> >> >>>> Charter:
>     http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>     >> >> >>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>     >> >> >>>
>     >> >> >>>
>     >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>     >> >> >>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>     >> >> >>> Charter:
>     http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>     >> >> >>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>     >> >> >>
>     >> >> >>
>     >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>     >> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>     >> >> >> Charter:
>     http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>     >> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>     >> >> >>
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> > --
>     >> >> > Ferenc Kovács
>     >> >> > @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
>     >> >> >
>     >> >> > _______________________________________________
>     >> >> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>     >> >> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>     >> >> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>     >> >>
>     >> >>
>     >> >> _______________________________________________
>     >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>     >> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>     >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>     >> >>
>     >> >> >From my understanding they used the channel as a possible
>     recruitment
>     >> >> ground, though only 6 people were officially a part of
>     lulzsec , i find
>     >> it
>     >> >> disturbing that law enforcement considers being in an irc
>     channel
>     >> tantamount
>     >> >> to being a part of lulzsec.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> _______________________________________________
>     >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>     >> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>     >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>     >> >>
>     >>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>     Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>     Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
>

I don't assume i know everything about them, and I'm all for hearing
other points of view so i bear no ill will for your comments and im
happy to hear any insights people have on this matter :)  What I do know
however is Kayla's perspective of the situation as she told me and what
Ive gathered with public information. When i say the guy was never a
part of lulzsec i mean it in the respect that Kayla never considered him
a member, they didn't consider people in the pure elite channel to be
members and you are right that they were potential recruits but only 6
people were considered actual members of lulzsec and that's according to
Kayla, if she was telling me the truth and her information was accurate
then this person was never really a part of their group.

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