Message-ID: <CAEJizbYv3GabcZMqBJTT_944ovGVFrHUG4ch6B_OhO4-O=63KQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:45:18 +0100
From: Benji <me@...ji.com>
To: Darren Martyn <d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: VPN provider helped track down alleged
	LulzSec member

Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK business
and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?



On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn <
d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com> wrote:

> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to recruit
> some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some talented
> programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more interesting
> was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and coders and
> potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially an
> ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact most
> were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>
> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing new -
> remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us who are
> privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>
> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all there is
> to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go assuming that I
> hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
> Good day.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm <laurelai@...echan.org>wrote:
>
>> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might
>> give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and
>> better.
>> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD" <doomxd@...il.com> wrote:
>> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed
>> and
>> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
>> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
>> hopefully it
>> > is just, cool.
>> > :)
>> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
>> > take care ,
>> > xd
>> >
>> >
>> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm <laurelai@...echan.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
>> >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD" <doomxd@...il.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hello Laurelai ,
>> >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even
>> know
>> >> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
>> >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
>> >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
>> >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy,
>> in my
>> >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge
>> >> torrent
>> >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by the
>> >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and
>> what
>> >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
>> >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing places
>> like
>> >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics,
>> whom
>> >> in
>> >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think
>> this
>> >> is
>> >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was
>> apart
>> >> of
>> >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
>> >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not
>> alone
>> >> by
>> >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout now..and,
>> that
>> >> is
>> >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
>> >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without realising,
>> >> asked
>> >> > a friend, to code for them.
>> >> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module
>> running
>> >> now.
>> >> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it :s
>> look
>> >> at
>> >> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon and
>> a
>> >> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out with
>> >> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is
>> mutual
>> >> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect
>> the
>> >> same.
>> >> > Respect for respect dear.
>> >> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am not
>> >> holding
>> >> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over one
>> >> idiotic
>> >> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i want
>> >> that,
>> >> > to be laid rest now.. please.
>> >> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will prevail and
>> >> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some way,
>> wether
>> >> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of
>> peoples
>> >> > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard for VPN,
>> I
>> >> do
>> >> > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
>> >> that,without
>> >> > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now legal
>> and
>> >> not
>> >> > legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
>> >> > ok, thats plenty, cheers!
>> >> > xd
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
>> >> >> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs" <tyra3l@...il.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD <doomxd@...il.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
>> >> >> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing...
>> why
>> >> do
>> >> >> ppl
>> >> >> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
>> >> >> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
>> >> >> >> xd
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
>> >> >> >> <d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But
>> seeing as
>> >> it
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> >>> an international investigation many people have been bending
>> over
>> >> >> backwards
>> >> >> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of
>> >> choice
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite
>> channel
>> >> on
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of
>> >> >> LulzSec".
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm <
>> >> laurelai@...echan.org
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton" <noloader@...il.com
>> >
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan . <ivanhec@...il.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >> >>>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
>> >> >> >>>> > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks
>> as
>> >> if
>> >> >> >>>> > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the
>> FBI
>> >> have
>> >> >> no
>> >> >> >>>> > jurisdiction in the UK.
>> >> >> >>>> >
>> >> >> >>>> > Jeff
>> >> >> >>>> >
>> >> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> >> >> >>>> > Charter:
>> http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> >> >> >>>> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> >> >> >>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> >> >> >>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> >> >> >>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> >> >> >>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> >> >> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> >> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Ferenc Kovács
>> >> >> > @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> >> >> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> >> >> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> >> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >From my understanding they used the channel as a possible
>> recruitment
>> >> >> ground, though only 6 people were officially a part of lulzsec , i
>> find
>> >> it
>> >> >> disturbing that law enforcement considers being in an irc channel
>> >> tantamount
>> >> >> to being a part of lulzsec.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> >> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> >> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>

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