Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:49:55 -0500
From: Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org>
To: noloader@...il.com
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: Snail mail vs. Email

On 10/12/2011 3:23 PM, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Laurelai<laurelai@...echan.org>  wrote:
>> On 10/12/2011 1:26 PM, Daniel Sichel wrote:
>>>> Well there is no push to make snail-mail encrypted and lets face it
>>> most
>>>> peoples mailboxes don't have any sort of locking mechanisms and is
>>>> available to anyone with two hands and the malicious intent to steal
>>>> someones mail  however the US Gov needs a warrant to intercept your
>>>> physical mail, why does it being online somehow make it different?
>>> What makes it different (and this is just me speaking, I don't really
>>> know how others
>>> feel or what current political thinking is on this)is that the internet
>>> represents a new,
>>> unregulated medium that can redefine some traditional standards and ways
>>> of doing
>>> Things in order to do them better.  For me, as a conservative, less
>>> regulation an more personal responsibility is better.
>>>
>>> I will say something probably a bit unusual, especially these days,
>>> reasonable men may differ on this view. A very credible argument for
>>> regulation can be made, I just keep coming back the reality that
>>> virtually every regulated medium of communication becomes a point of
>>> control. To shamelessly steal and warp a phrase, "The power to regulate
>>> is the power to destroy."
>>>
>>> I would prefer to be responsible for my own privacy and pit my skills
>>> against the Feds at keeping it that way rather than "trust" them not to
>>> abuse their access to my "protected" email.
>>>
>>> I work in the phone business and we have CALEA requirements which
>>> supposedly allows law enforcement to carry out their sanctioned wire
>>> taps anonymously to protect suspects' right to privacy. I may be wrong,
>>> but it seems pretty abusable (if that's a word) to me.  I do NOT want
>>> that on the Internet.
>> Right and the way to stop that is to require a warrant and a paper
>> trail, if someone serves a warrant at your home you get a copy of the
>> warrant and you can ensure they only get exactly what the warrant states
>> and *nothing more* these warantless email seizures have no such limits
>> or accountability.they can literally come in and take copies of all your
>> emails and you will never know about it, and they can do it for
>> practically any reason, if you encrypt your email they will just demand
>> they keys/passwords with a court order and you can't really fight it
>> without spending time in jail, the US Gov simply doesn't have enough
>> accountability or transparency, that's why we *need* more legal
>> protections, if cops kick down your door without a warrant then anything
>> they find rightfully cant be used as evidence, the same thing should
>> apply to electronic communications.
> In the US, we have the legal protections (on paper). The laws are not
> enforced; the checks are balances are lacking; and there is no
> accountatbility for public officials.
>
> There's not a lot we can do when a public official disregards the law,
> and subsequently goes unpunished. The ACLU and EFF do a great job, but
> until public officials spend time imprisoned for their actions,
> nothing will change.
>
> Jeff
That is a good point Jeff, all the more reason to push for change and 
reform.

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