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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 11:02:47 -0400
From: "Mikhail A. Utin" <>
To: "" <>
Subject: Re: Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 88, Issue 11:

My 10 cents:
I'm glad that such discussions happen on this list. I would not consider that as "out of topic", because Information Security, and security in general, did/do include significant political component, and we cannot avoid or ignore it. Plus, and it is important as well, it gives as a freedom of speech and an ability of better understanding of each other in this "fulldisclosure" society of security fans and professionals.
What actually surprises me, is that people's voice of millions still unheard. Internet has been already used to change regimes (like in Egypt) for better or worse, but there is no well-known and used by everybody resource of expressing an opinion. I mean a magnitude of Google or Wikipedia. I'm surprised that Google still does not have on its default page a big button "My Opinion". I think that it would be much easier to implement than Maps or other services. I've seen in past some sites collecting public opinion, but we need such as Google to move that forward. Would it be beneficial to Google? I think so. To people? Of course. Politicians? I would bet for. The only one problem is the government. More likely it will be on losing end very often. So, may it be the reason Google did or will not implement that?


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 7:00 AM 
Subject: Full-Disclosure Digest, Vol 88, Issue 11

We are not so savage that we decide who is powerful by military strength.  Money plays a much bigger role in deciding power in our society; people with money have significant influence over the military and paramilitary police, and many make decisions that affect millions of people every day.  Chris Dodd basically stated an expectation that laws can be bought after PIPA and SOPA failed, as if the money the MPAA had donated to politicians was supposed to guarantee that those politicians would do what the MPAA tells them to do.  Armies and wars are expensive and need to be paid for, and money is how we pay for such things.

Law enforcement (i.e. the use of guns) is rarely needed to maintain the power of money; most people accept the laws that surround money and try to follow them.  People pay taxes when asked politely, they pay fines and damages that courts assess, they repay loans when legally obligated to so, and so forth.  Disputes over money are almost always settled without violence and without the need to call in the police, even in cases where people broke the law.  Even violent criminal gangs need money, despite being in possession of guns and despite a willingness to make use of those guns.

Alexander Dumas stated it better than I can:

"What I mean, my dear fellow, is that I shall do more by myself with my gold than you and all your people with their daggers, their pistols, their carbines and their blunderbusses.  So let me do it." (The Count of Monte Cristo)

-- Ben

Benjamin R Kreuter
UVA Computer Science


"If large numbers of people are interested in freedom of speech, there will be freedom of speech, even if the law forbids it; if public opinion is sluggish, inconvenient minorities will be persecuted, even if laws exist to protect them." - George Orwell
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