Message-ID: <58DB1B68E62B9F448DF1A276B0886DF194DE1B91@EX2010.hammerofgod.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2012 17:03:02 +0000
From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor@...merofgod.com>
To: "full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk" <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Obama Order Sped Up Wave of Cyberattacks
 Against Iran

>> finding solutions to countries using cyberwar and using innocent peoples machines to carry it out,
>>  invading peoples privacy and generally doing terrible stuff in the name of god and country.

What solution?  And who exactly is going to "find" it?  The entire history of mankind is based on the "terrible stuff we do in the name of god and country."  We, of course, being humans.  All we need is one of the two and we've got all the justification we need to go off and kill someone else for having a different god or different country.   Note I said "justification" and not "motivation."   God and country are just excuses - means to an end.  There's always another agenda.

Man does things for two reasons:  to get laid, or to get paid.   Everything else is just a nice fuzzy wrap to make us feel better about ourselves.  "Finding some other solution" is  naïve and a waste of time.  We, and everyone else, will do whatever we want to do, and do whatever it takes to get away with it.  It's as simple as that.  It's easy and convenient for you to bitch about the injustices from behind a keyboard when men and woman are out there DYING for their country and the integrity of what they believe in, irrespective of the basis of the decisions their commanding bodies have for sending them out there.  It's called "real life."  Grow up and go get that bleeding heart sewn up at some free clinic, paid for by the government that has to do the hard work in order to preserve your right to whine about it.

[Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description: TimSig]

Timothy "Thor"  Mullen
www.hammerofgod.com
Thor's Microsoft Security Bible<http://www.amazon.com/Thors-Microsoft-Security-Bible-Collection/dp/1597495727>


From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of Laurelai
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 9:04 AM
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Obama Order Sped Up Wave of Cyberattacks Against Iran

On 6/8/12 11:38 AM, valdis.kletnieks@...edu<mailto:valdis.kletnieks@...edu> wrote:

On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:48:33 -0400, Ian Hayes said:

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 1:40 PM, andrew.wallace <andrew.wallace@...ketmail.com><mailto:andrew.wallace@...ketmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM,  <valdis.kletnieks@...edu><mailto:valdis.kletnieks@...edu> wrote:

One could equally well read that as "We're fed up and about to

pound North Korea even further back into the Stone Age".



With Stuxnet, it was lucky nobody was seriously injured.



You cannot condone such weapons Valdis, or your hat will start to turn grey,

black.



Stuxnet may not have killed anyone, but several Iranian nuclear

scientists were assassinated in conjunction with Stuxnet's release.



Please don't feed the troll - the only way he can post to full-disclosure is

if somebody quotes him in.



The worst part is that Andrew's reading comprehension is as good as

always - I wasn't commenting on Stuxnet, but the move of naval forces

to the Pacific.  China isn't the only reason we might want a naval task

force over there.



And I never said I condoned it, merely pointed out alternate interpretations.



The funny thing is that Andrew was going on for a *long* time that there

is no such thing as cyber-warfare - when in fact it was going on while he

was denying it.






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I think the real question we should all think on is what are we going to do about this kind of thing?

Because the way I see it, the infosec industry is part of this problem until it finds a way to be a part of the solution, if you all even desire this.

If you do then lets talk about finding solutions to countries using cyberwar and using innocent peoples machines to carry it out, invading peoples privacy and generally doing terrible stuff in the name of god and country.

If you don't then just do us all a favor and stop calling yourself an infosec expert, stop pretending to be one of the good guys and just call yourself a mercenary and realize you are in the same class of people who assassinated civilian scientists for political reasons. I hope all that money helps you sleep at night.

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