Date:   Sat, 3 Aug 2019 22:24:41 +0200
From:   Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>
To:     "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@....edu>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        Deepa Dinamani <deepa.kernel@...il.com>,
        "Darrick J. Wong" <darrick.wong@...cle.com>,
        Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux FS-devel Mailing List <linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org>,
        y2038 Mailman List <y2038@...ts.linaro.org>,
        Andreas Dilger <adilger.kernel@...ger.ca>,
        Ext4 Developers List <linux-ext4@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 09/20] ext4: Initialize timestamps limits

On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o <tytso@....edu> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Aug 03, 2019 at 11:30:22AM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> >
> > I see in the ext4 code that we always try to expand i_extra_size
> > to s_want_extra_isize in ext4_mark_inode_dirty(), and that
> > s_want_extra_isize is always at least  s_min_extra_isize, so
> > we constantly try to expand the inode to fit.
>
> Yes, we *try*.  But we may not succeed.  There may actually be a
> problem here if the cause is due to there simply is no space in the
> external xattr block, so we might try and try every time we try to
> modify that inode, and it would be a performance mess.  If it's due to
> there being no room in the current transaction, then it's highly
> likely it will succeed the next time.
>
> > Did older versions of ext4 or ext3 ignore s_min_extra_isize
> > when creating inodes despite
> > EXT4_FEATURE_RO_COMPAT_EXTRA_ISIZE,
> > or is there another possibility I'm missing?
>
> s_min_extra_isize could get changed in order to make room for some new
> file system feature --- such as extended timestamps.

Ok, that explains it. I assumed s_min_extra_isize was meant to
not be modifiable, and did not find a way to change it using the
kernel or tune2fs, but now I can see that debugfs can set it.

> If you want to pretend that file systems never get upgraded, then life
> is much simpler.  The general approach is that for less-sophisticated
> customers (e.g., most people running enterprise distros) file system
> upgrades are not a thing.  But for sophisticated users, we do try to
> make thing work for people who are aware of the risks / caveats /
> rough edges.  Google won't have been able to upgrade thousands and
> thousands of servers in data centers all over the world if we limited
> ourselves to Red Hat's support restrictions.  Backup / reformat /
> restore really isn't a practical rollout strategy for many exabytes of
> file systems.
>
> It sounds like your safety checks / warnings are mostly targeted at
> low-information customers, no?

Yes, that seems like a reasonable compromise: just warn based
on s_min_extra_isize, and assume that anyone who used debugfs
to set s_min_extra_isize to a higher value from an ext3 file system
during the migration to ext4 was aware of the risks already.

That leaves the question of what we should set the s_time_gran
and s_time_max to on a superblock with s_min_extra_isize<16
and s_want_extra_isize>=16.

If we base it on s_min_extra_isize, we never try to set a timestamp
later than 2038 and so will never fail, but anyone with a grandfathered
s_min_extra_isize from ext3 won't be able to set extended
timestamps on any files any more. Based on s_want_extra_isize
we would keep the current behavior, but could add a custom
warning in the ext4 code about the small s_min_extra_isize
indicating a theoretical problem.

       Arnd

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