linux-ext4 - Re: [PATCH RFC v7 00/23] DEPT(Dependency Tracker)

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Message-ID: <0110b1d1-17c4-49a3-64c0-ad7d7b8cbd29@redhat.com>
Date:   Tue, 17 Jan 2023 13:40:51 -0500
From:   Waiman Long <longman@...hat.com>
To:     Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:     Byungchul Park <byungchul.park@....com>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, damien.lemoal@...nsource.wdc.com,
        linux-ide@...r.kernel.org, adilger.kernel@...ger.ca,
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Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC v7 00/23] DEPT(Dependency Tracker)

On 1/17/23 13:18, Boqun Feng wrote:
> [Cc Waiman]
>
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 10:00:52AM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>> [ Back from travel, so trying to make sense of this series.. ]
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 8, 2023 at 7:33 PM Byungchul Park <byungchul.park@....com> wrote:
>>> I've been developing a tool for detecting deadlock possibilities by
>>> tracking wait/event rather than lock(?) acquisition order to try to
>>> cover all synchonization machanisms. It's done on v6.2-rc2.
>> Ugh. I hate how this adds random patterns like
>>
>>          if (timeout == MAX_SCHEDULE_TIMEOUT)
>>                  sdt_might_sleep_strong(NULL);
>>          else
>>                  sdt_might_sleep_strong_timeout(NULL);
>>     ...
>>          sdt_might_sleep_finish();
>>
>> to various places, it seems so very odd and unmaintainable.
>>
>> I also recall this giving a fair amount of false positives, are they all fixed?
>>
>  From the following part in the cover letter, I guess the answer is no?
>
> 	...
>          6. Multiple reports are allowed.
>          7. Deduplication control on multiple reports.
>          8. Withstand false positives thanks to 6.
> 	...
>
> seems to me that the logic is since DEPT allows multiple reports so that
> false positives are fitlerable by users?
>
>> Anyway, I'd really like the lockdep people to comment and be involved.
> I never get Cced, so I'm unware of this for a long time...
>
> A few comments after a quick look:
>
> *	Looks like the DEPT dependency graph doesn't handle the
> 	fair/unfair readers as lockdep current does. Which bring the
> 	next question.
>
> *	Can DEPT pass all the selftests of lockdep in
> 	lib/locking-selftests.c?
>
> *	Instead of introducing a brand new detector/dependency tracker,
> 	could we first improve the lockdep's dependency tracker? I think
> 	Byungchul also agrees that DEPT and lockdep should share the
> 	same dependency tracker and the benefit of improving the
> 	existing one is that we can always use the self test to catch
> 	any regression. Thoughts?
>
> Actually the above sugguest is just to revert revert cross-release
> without exposing any annotation, which I think is more practical to
> review and test.
>
> I'd sugguest we 1) first improve the lockdep dependency tracker with
> wait/event in mind and then 2) introduce wait related annotation so that
> users can use, and then 3) look for practical ways to resolve false
> positives/multi reports with the help of users, if all goes well,
> 4) make it all operation annotated.

I agree with your suggestions. In fact, the lockdep code itself is one 
of major overheads when running a debug kernel. If we have another set 
of parallel dependency tracker, we may slow down a debug kernel even 
more. So I would rather prefer improving the existing lockdep code 
instead creating a completely new one.

I do agree that the lockdep code itself is now rather complex. A 
separate dependency tracker, however, may undergo similar transformation 
over time to become more and more complex due to the needs to meet 
different requirement and constraints.

Cheers,
Longman