linux-kernel - Re: metadata plugins (was Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion)

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Message-ID: <44CBA814.7000906@slaphack.com>
Date:	Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:25:24 -0500
From:	David Masover <ninja@...phack.com>
To:	Hans Reiser <reiser@...esys.com>
CC:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...l.org>,
	"Horst H. von Brand" <vonbrand@....utfsm.cl>,
	Jeff Garzik <jeff@...zik.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@...l.org>,
	Theodore Tso <tytso@....edu>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	ReiserFS List <reiserfs-list@...esys.com>
Subject: Re: metadata plugins (was Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed
 by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion)

Hans Reiser wrote:
> David Masover wrote:
> 
>> If indeed it can be changed easily at all.  I think the burden is on
>> you to prove that you can change it to be more generic, rather than
>> saying "Well, we could do it later, if people want us to..."
> 
> None of the filesystems other than reiser4 have any interest in using
> plugins, and this whole argument over how it should be in VFS is
> nonsensical because nobody but us has any interest in using the
> functionality.  The burden is on the generic code authors to prove that
> they will ever ever do anything at all besides complain.  Frankly, I
> don't think they will.  I think they will never produce one line of code.

I think it's fair to say that 5-10 years from now, with different ext3
maintainers, when the Reiser4 concept has proven itself, people will
want plugins for ext3, and the ext3 developers will like the idea.

ext* is one of those things that just refuses to die.  I use ext3 for my
/boot fs, so that I don't have to patch Grub for Reiser4, and so that at
least I can mess with the bootloader from any rescue CD if something
goes wrong.  It's for kind of the same reason that Gentoo builds a
32-bit Grub, even though I'm booting a 64-bit OS -- just in case.

I also use ext2 for my initrd.

There are other monstrosities that will likely never die, also.
ISO9660, UDF, and VFAT probably all have worse storage characteristics
than Reiser4, in that as I understand it, they won't pack multiple files
into a block.  So Reiser4 might even make a good boot cd FS, storing
things more efficiently -- but even if I'm right, those three
filesystems will last forever, because they are currently well supported
on every major OS, and I think one of ISO/UDF is required for DVDs.

So for whatever reason someone's using another filesystem, even if all
they need is the on-disk format (my reason for ext3 /boot and vfat on
USB thumbdrives), I think it's reasonable to expect that they may one
day want plugin functionality.  People who like Reiser filesystems will
do just fine running Reiser4 with a (udf|iso|vfat) storage driver, but
people who don't will just want the higher level stuff.

You're probably right and this is years of work for something that may
not be worth anything, but I think this is what is going through
people's heads as they look at this plugin system.

So see my comments about distro inclusion.

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