linux-kernel - Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion

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Message-ID: <44CE7DFD.7030903@wolfmountaingroup.com>
Date:	Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:02:37 -0600
From:	"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@...fmountaingroup.com>
To:	"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@...fmountaingroup.com>
CC:	Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@...il.com>,
	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Clay Barnes <clay.barnes@...il.com>,
	Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@...ons.demon.nl>,
	Adrian Ulrich <reiser4@...nkenlights.ch>,
	vonbrand@....utfsm.cl, ipso@...ppymail.ca, reiser@...esys.com,
	lkml@...productions.com, jeff@...zik.org, tytso@....edu,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, reiserfs-list@...esys.com
Subject: Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.org
 regarding reiser4 inclusion

Jeff V. Merkey wrote:

> Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>
>> On 7/31/06, Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Its well accepted that reiserfs3 has some robustness problems in the
>>> face of physical media errors. The structure of the file system and the
>>> tree basis make it very hard to avoid such problems. XFS appears to 
>>> have
>>> managed to achieve both robustness and better data structures.
>>>
>>> How reiser4 compares I've no idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> Citation?
>>
>> I ask because your clam differs from the only detailed research that
>> I'm aware of on the subject[1]. In figure 2 of the iron filesystems
>> paper that Ext3 is show to ignore a great number of data-loss inducing
>> failure conditions that Reiser3 detects an panics under.
>>
>> Are you sure that you aren't commenting on cases where Reiser3 alerts
>> the user to a critical data condition (via a panic) which leads to a
>> trouble report while ext3 ignores the problem which suppresses the
>> trouble report from the user?
>>
>> *1) http://www.cs.wisc.edu/adsl/Publications/iron-sosp05.pdf
>
>
> Hi Gregory, Wikimedia Foundation and LKML?
> How's Wikimania going. :-)
>
> What he says is correct.  I have seen some serious issues with 
> reiserfs in terms of stability and
> data corruption.  Resier is however FASTER, but the statement is has 
> robustness issues is accurate.
> I was using reiserfs but we opted to make EXT3 the default for Solera 
> appliances, even when using Suse 10
> due to issues I have seen with data corruption and hard hangs on RAID 
> 0 read/write sector errors.  I have
> stopped using it for local drives and based everything on EXT3.  Not 
> to say it won't get there eventually, but
> file systems have to endure a lot of time in the field and deployment 
> befor they are ready for prime time.
>

Correction,

That's "MediWiki" appliances.   Two many transposed acronyms...

www.wolfmountaingroup.com

:-)

Jeff

> The Wikimedia appliances use Wolf Mountain, and I've tested it for 
> about 4 months with few problems, but
> I only use it for hosting the Cherokee Langauge Wikipedia.  It's 
> performance is several magnitudes better
> than either EXT3 or ReiserFS.  Despite this, for vertical wiki 
> servers, its ok to go out with, folks can specifiy
> whether they want appliances with EXT3, Reiser, or WMFS, but iit's a 
> long way from being "cooked"
> completely, though it does scale to 1 exabyte FS images.
> Reiser does have issues still, and I hestitate to standardize on it 
> until I stop seeing reports from the field about
> corruption and failover issues.
>
> Jeff
>
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