Message-Id: <1167764699.17805.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Date:	Tue, 02 Jan 2007 14:04:59 -0500
From:	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>
To:	"Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@...dspring.com>
Cc:	Theodore Tso <tytso@....edu>,
	Trent Waddington <trent.waddington@...il.com>,
	Bernd Petrovitsch <bernd@...mix.at>,
	"Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu" <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu>,
	Erik Mouw <erik@...ddisk-recovery.com>,
	Giuseppe Bilotta <bilotta78@...pop.com>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: [OT] Hot coffee (was: Open letter to Linux kernel developers (was
	Re: Binary Drivers))

On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 08:22 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2007, Theodore Tso wrote:
> 
> > I can very easily believe it.  The US patent system and "justice"
> > system in the US is completely and totally insane, and companies
> > often feel they have to act accordingly.  Remember this is the
> > country that has issued multi-million dollar awards to people who
> > spill hot coffee in their lap ...
> 
> MASSIVELY OFF TOPIC:  can we please stop using this "hot coffee in
> lap" story as an example of the idiocy of the justice system?  i'm
> guessing there's more to this story than most folks are aware of, and
> you're welcome to read the details here:
> 
>   http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

Thanks for the pointer.

"The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages.  This amount
was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found Liebeck 20 percent at
fault in the spill.  The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in
punitive damages, which equals about two days of McDonalds' coffee
sales."

Although the punitive damages was later brought down to $480,000 (still
extreme for the case) it wasn't just the law suit that caused the
uproar. It was the $2.7 million that was (initially) rewarded. And for
what? Spilling hot substance on your lap.  I highly doubt that this
would have been big news if the reward was just the $200,000. Since
that's not really a life changing reward now a days.  But there's too
much "sue for the money" attitude in the US that the $2.7 mill got
people upset.

> 
> as you can see, there are two salient points that change the
> complexion of this story thoroughly:
> 
> 1) mcdonald's was not merely serving their coffee "hot," but
> *scalding* hot (180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature that
> will produce third-degree burns almost immediately, and
> 
> 2) there had, for a decade prior, been some *700* cases where people
> had burned themselves with mcdonald's coffee, so it's not as if
> mcdonald's was unaware of the danger, yet continued to ignore it.

I'll admit that I burnt myself while driving and drinking McD's coffee,
but I never even thought about complaining about it.

> 
>   yes, the american system of justice is brain-damaged.  but it's time
> to find another example to use as the evidence, ok?

OK, I like Ted's example of the lawnmower :) 

Well, the coffee one has gotten world news, and is just the "poster boy"
for the frivolous lawsuits that are done in America.  A while back I met
a guy and he told me that he was working on his motorcycle, and disabled
the breaks. Someone came by and stole the bike when he went in his house
to get some tools. The thief crashed the bike (totaling it) and received
some major injuries. Then the thief sued the guy because of the faulty
breaks!  He was in the middle of the case when I met him, so I don't
know how it ended. But the fact that this wasn't laughed out of court
just shows that the US system is screwed up.

-- Steve


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