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Date:	Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:15:03 +0200
From:	"Michal Piotrowski" <michal.k.k.piotrowski@...il.com>
To:	"Adrian Bunk" <bunk@...sta.de>
Cc:	"Stefan Richter" <stefanr@...6.in-berlin.de>,
	"Oleg Verych" <olecom@...wer.upol.cz>,
	"Linus Torvalds" <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	"Andi Kleen" <andi@...stfloor.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...k.pl>,
	"Diego Calleja" <diegocg@...il.com>,
	"Chuck Ebbert" <cebbert@...hat.com>,
	"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"Andrew Morton" <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: How to improve the quality of the kernel?

On 17/06/07, Adrian Bunk <bunk@...sta.de> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2007 at 03:17:58PM +0200, Michal Piotrowski wrote:
> > On 17/06/07, Adrian Bunk <bunk@...sta.de> wrote:
> >...
> >> Fine with me, but:
> >>
> >> There are not so simple cases like big infrastructure patches with
> >> 20 other patches in the tree depending on it causing a regression, or
> >> even worse, a big infrastructure patch exposing a latent old bug in some
> >> completely different area of the kernel.
> >
> > It is different case.
> >
> > "If the patch introduces a new regression"
> >
> > introduces != exposes an old bug
>
> My remark was meant as a note "this sentence can't handle all
> regressions" (and for a user it doesn't matter whether a new
> regression is introduced or an old regression exposed).
>
> It could be we simply agree on this one.  ;-)
>
> > Removal of 20 patches will be painful, but sometimes you need to
> > "choose minor evil to prevent a greater one" [1].
> >
> >> And we should be aware that reverting is only a workaround for the real
> >> problem which lies in our bug handling.
> >...
>
> And this is something I want to emphasize again.
>
> How can we make any progress with the real problem and not only the
> symptoms?
>
> There's now much money in the Linux market, and the kernel quality
> problems might result in real costs in the support of companies like
> IBM, SGI, Redhat or Novell (plus it harms the Linux image which might
> result in lower revenues).
>
> If [1] this is true, it might even pay pay off for them to each assign
> X man hours per month of experienced kernel developers to upstream
> kernel bug handling?
>
> This is just a wild thought and it might be nonsense - better
> suggestions for solving our quality problems would be highly welcome...

Just one comment.

We don't try to recruit new skilled testers - it's a big problem.
Skilled tester can narrow down the problem, try to fix it etc. There
are too many "something between 2.6.10 and 2.6.21 broke my laptop"
reports...

Regards,
Michal

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