Message-ID: <20080229231841.GA6639@linux.intel.com>
Date:	Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:18:41 -0800
From:	mark gross <mgross@...ux.intel.com>
To:	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, greg@...ah.com
Cc:	lkml <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	linux-pci@...ey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz
Subject: Re: [PATCH]iommu-iotlb-flushing

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:05:17AM -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:06:23 -0800 mark gross <mgross@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
> 
> > The following patch is for batching up the flushing of the IOTLB for
> > the DMAR implementation found in the Intel VT-d hardware.  It works by
> > building a list of to be flushed IOTLB entries and a bitmap list of
> > which DMAR engine they are from.
> > 
> > After either a high water mark (250 accessible via debugfs) or 10ms the
> > list of iova's will be reclaimed and the DMAR engines associated are
> > IOTLB-flushed.
> > 
> > This approach recovers 15 to 20% of the performance lost when using the
> > IOMMU for my netperf udp stream benchmark with small packets.  It can be
> > disabled with a kernel boot parameter
> > "intel_iommu=strict".
> > 
> > Its use does weaken the IOMMU protections a bit.
> > 
> > I would like to see this go into MM for a while and then onto mainline.
> > 
> > ...
> >
> > +static struct timer_list unmap_timer =
> > +	TIMER_INITIALIZER(flush_unmaps_timeout, 0, 0);
> 
> Could use DEFINE_TIMER here.

fixed.

> 
> > +struct unmap_list {
> > +	struct list_head list;
> > +	struct dmar_domain *domain;
> > +	struct iova *iova;
> > +};
> 
> unmap_list doens't seem to be used anywhere?

fixed.

> 
> > +static struct intel_iommu *g_iommus;
> > +/* bitmap for indexing intel_iommus */
> > +static unsigned long 	*g_iommus_to_flush;
> > +static int g_num_of_iommus;
> > +
> > +static DEFINE_SPINLOCK(async_umap_flush_lock);
> > +static LIST_HEAD(unmaps_to_do);
> > +
> > +static int timer_on;
> > +static long list_size;
> > +static int high_watermark;
> > +
> > +static struct dentry *intel_iommu_debug, *debug;
> > +
> > +
> >  static void domain_remove_dev_info(struct dmar_domain *domain);
> >  
> >  static int dmar_disabled;
> >  static int __initdata dmar_map_gfx = 1;
> >  static int dmar_forcedac;
> > +static int intel_iommu_strict;
> >  
> >  #define DUMMY_DEVICE_DOMAIN_INFO ((struct device_domain_info *)(-1))
> >  static DEFINE_SPINLOCK(device_domain_lock);
> > @@ -73,9 +103,13 @@
> >  			printk(KERN_INFO
> >  				"Intel-IOMMU: disable GFX device mapping\n");
> >  		} else if (!strncmp(str, "forcedac", 8)) {
> > -			printk (KERN_INFO
> > +			printk(KERN_INFO
> >  				"Intel-IOMMU: Forcing DAC for PCI devices\n");
> >  			dmar_forcedac = 1;
> > +		} else if (!strncmp(str, "strict", 8)) {
> 
> s/8/6/

fixed.

> 
> > +			printk(KERN_INFO
> > +				"Intel-IOMMU: disable batched IOTLB flush\n");
> > +			intel_iommu_strict = 1;
> >  		}
> >  
> >  		str += strcspn(str, ",");
> > @@ -965,17 +999,13 @@
> >  		set_bit(0, iommu->domain_ids);
> >  	return 0;
> >  }
> > -
> > -static struct intel_iommu *alloc_iommu(struct dmar_drhd_unit *drhd)
> > +static struct intel_iommu *alloc_iommu(struct intel_iommu *iommu,
> > +					struct dmar_drhd_unit *drhd)
> >  {
> > -	struct intel_iommu *iommu;
> >  	int ret;
> >  	int map_size;
> >  	u32 ver;
> >  
> > -	iommu = kzalloc(sizeof(*iommu), GFP_KERNEL);
> > -	if (!iommu)
> > -		return NULL;
> >  	iommu->reg = ioremap(drhd->reg_base_addr, PAGE_SIZE_4K);
> >  	if (!iommu->reg) {
> >  		printk(KERN_ERR "IOMMU: can't map the region\n");
> > @@ -1396,7 +1426,7 @@
> >  	int index;
> >  
> >  	while (dev) {
> > -		for (index = 0; index < cnt; index ++)
> > +		for (index = 0; index < cnt; index++)
> >  			if (dev == devices[index])
> >  				return 1;
> >  
> > @@ -1661,7 +1691,7 @@
> >  	struct dmar_rmrr_unit *rmrr;
> >  	struct pci_dev *pdev;
> >  	struct intel_iommu *iommu;
> > -	int ret, unit = 0;
> > +	int nlongs, i, ret, unit = 0;
> >  
> >  	/*
> >  	 * for each drhd
> > @@ -1672,7 +1702,30 @@
> >  	for_each_drhd_unit(drhd) {
> >  		if (drhd->ignored)
> >  			continue;
> > -		iommu = alloc_iommu(drhd);
> > +		g_num_of_iommus++;
> 
> No locking needed for g_num_of_iommus?

Yup, not needed.  Only the single threaded __init path increments this
and after that only read accesses happen.

> 
> > +	}
> > +
> > +	nlongs = BITS_TO_LONGS(g_num_of_iommus);
> 
> Would this code be neater if it used the <linux/bitmap.h> stuff?
> 

I just looked, I don't think bitmap.h helps me with my bitmap use in
this module.


> > +	g_iommus_to_flush = kzalloc(nlongs * sizeof(unsigned long), GFP_KERNEL);
> > +	if (!g_iommus_to_flush) {
> > +		printk(KERN_ERR "Intel-IOMMU: "
> > +			"Allocating bitmap array failed\n");
> > +		return -ENOMEM;
> 
> Are you sure we aren't leaking anything here?  Like the alloc_iommu() above?
> 

Fixed.  Was leaking the g_iommus_to_flush on the error path.


> > +	}
> > +
> > +	g_iommus = kzalloc(g_num_of_iommus * sizeof(*iommu), GFP_KERNEL);
> > +	if (!g_iommus) {
> > +		kfree(g_iommus_to_flush);
> > +		ret = -ENOMEM;
> > +		goto error;
> > +	}
> > +
> > +	i = 0;
> > +	for_each_drhd_unit(drhd) {
> > +		if (drhd->ignored)
> > +			continue;
> > +		iommu = alloc_iommu(&g_iommus[i], drhd);
> > +		i++;
> >  		if (!iommu) {
> >  			ret = -ENOMEM;
> >  			goto error;
> > @@ -1705,7 +1758,6 @@
> >  	 * endfor
> >  	 */
> >  	for_each_rmrr_units(rmrr) {
> > -		int i;
> >  		for (i = 0; i < rmrr->devices_cnt; i++) {
> >  			pdev = rmrr->devices[i];
> >  			/* some BIOS lists non-exist devices in DMAR table */
> > @@ -1909,6 +1961,54 @@
> >  	return 0;
> >  }
> >  
> > +static void flush_unmaps(void)
> > +{
> > +	struct iova *node, *n;
> > +	unsigned long flags;
> > +	int i;
> > +
> > +	spin_lock_irqsave(&async_umap_flush_lock, flags);
> > +	timer_on = 0;
> > +
> > +	/*just flush them all*/
> 
> I'm surprised that checkpatch didn't grump about the odd commenting style.
> 

fixed.

> > +	for (i = 0; i < g_num_of_iommus; i++) {
> > +		if (test_and_clear_bit(i, g_iommus_to_flush))
> > +			iommu_flush_iotlb_global(&g_iommus[i], 0);
> > +	}
> > +
> > +	list_for_each_entry_safe(node, n, &unmaps_to_do, list) {
> > +		/* free iova */
> > +		list_del(&node->list);
> > +		__free_iova(&((struct dmar_domain *)node->dmar)->iovad, node);
> > +
> > +	}
> > +	list_size = 0;
> > +	spin_unlock_irqrestore(&async_umap_flush_lock, flags);
> > +}
> > +
> > +static void flush_unmaps_timeout(unsigned long data)
> > +{
> > +	flush_unmaps();
> > +}
> > +
> > +static void add_unmap(struct dmar_domain *dom, struct iova *iova)
> > +{
> > +	unsigned long flags;
> > +
> > +	spin_lock_irqsave(&async_umap_flush_lock, flags);
> 
> How scalable is this?

Its not very, but I'm doing an insert walk of a list and need the locks.
On the bright side, its way better than spin locking and poling the
IOTLB bit for cleared on every unmap.

> 
> > +	iova->dmar = dom;
> > +	list_add(&iova->list, &unmaps_to_do);
> > +	set_bit((dom->iommu - g_iommus), g_iommus_to_flush);
> > +
> > +	if (!timer_on) {
> > +		unmap_timer.expires = jiffies + msecs_to_jiffies(10);
> > +		mod_timer(&unmap_timer, unmap_timer.expires);
> 
> No, this modifies unmap_timer.expires twice.  Might be racy too.  You want
> 
> 	mod_timer(&unmap_timer, jiffies + msecs_to_jiffies(10));
> 

Fixed.

> > +		timer_on = 1;
> > +	}
> > +	list_size++;
> > +	spin_unlock_irqrestore(&async_umap_flush_lock, flags);
> > +}
> > +
> >  static void intel_unmap_single(struct device *dev, dma_addr_t dev_addr,
> >  	size_t size, int dir)
> >  {
> > @@ -1936,13 +2036,21 @@
> >  	dma_pte_clear_range(domain, start_addr, start_addr + size);
> >  	/* free page tables */
> >  	dma_pte_free_pagetable(domain, start_addr, start_addr + size);
> > -
> > -	if (iommu_flush_iotlb_psi(domain->iommu, domain->id, start_addr,
> > -			size >> PAGE_SHIFT_4K, 0))
> > -		iommu_flush_write_buffer(domain->iommu);
> > -
> > -	/* free iova */
> > -	__free_iova(&domain->iovad, iova);
> > +	if (intel_iommu_strict) {
> > +		if (iommu_flush_iotlb_psi(domain->iommu,
> > +			domain->id, start_addr, size >> PAGE_SHIFT_4K, 0))
> > +			iommu_flush_write_buffer(domain->iommu);
> > +		/* free iova */
> > +		__free_iova(&domain->iovad, iova);
> > +	} else {
> > +		add_unmap(domain, iova);
> > +		/*
> > +		 * queue up the release of the unmap to save the 1/6th of the
> > +		 * cpu used up by the iotlb flush operation...
> > +		 */
> > +		if (list_size > high_watermark)
> > +			flush_unmaps();
> > +	}
> >  }
> >  
> >  static void * intel_alloc_coherent(struct device *hwdev, size_t size,
> > @@ -2266,6 +2374,10 @@
> >  	if (dmar_table_init())
> >  		return 	-ENODEV;
> >  
> > +	high_watermark = 250;
> > +	intel_iommu_debug = debugfs_create_dir("intel_iommu", NULL);
> > +	debug = debugfs_create_u32("high_watermark", S_IWUGO | S_IRUGO,
> > +					intel_iommu_debug, &high_watermark);
> >  	iommu_init_mempool();
> >  	dmar_init_reserved_ranges();
> >  
> > @@ -2281,6 +2393,7 @@
> >  	printk(KERN_INFO
> >  	"PCI-DMA: Intel(R) Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O\n");
> >  
> > +	init_timer(&unmap_timer);
> 
> I see timers being added, but I see no del_timer_sync()s added on cleanup
> paths.  Are you sure that we don't have races on various teardown paths?
> 

The only error path to delete the single timer created is at the bottom
of intel_iommu_init.  I don't think there is a place for the timer to be
delete and any error clean up paths to put it.

> >  	force_iommu = 1;
> >  	dma_ops = &intel_dma_ops;
> >  	return 0;
> > Index: linux-2.6.24-mm1/drivers/pci/iova.h
> > ===================================================================
> > --- linux-2.6.24-mm1.orig/drivers/pci/iova.h	2008-02-12 07:12:06.000000000 -0800
> > +++ linux-2.6.24-mm1/drivers/pci/iova.h	2008-02-12 07:39:53.000000000 -0800
> > @@ -23,6 +23,8 @@
> >  	struct rb_node	node;
> >  	unsigned long	pfn_hi; /* IOMMU dish out addr hi */
> >  	unsigned long	pfn_lo; /* IOMMU dish out addr lo */
> > +	struct list_head list;
> > +	void *dmar;
> >  };
> >  
> >  /* holds all the iova translations for a domain */
> > Index: linux-2.6.24-mm1/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt
> > ===================================================================
> > --- linux-2.6.24-mm1.orig/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt	2008-02-12 07:12:06.000000000 -0800
> > +++ linux-2.6.24-mm1/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt	2008-02-13 11:17:22.000000000 -0800
> > @@ -822,6 +822,10 @@
> >  			than 32 bit addressing. The default is to look
> >  			for translation below 32 bit and if not available
> >  			then look in the higher range.
> > +		strict [Default Off]
> > +			With this option on every unmap_single operation will
> > +			result in a hardware IOTLB flush operation as opposed
> > +			to batching them for performance.
> 
> boot-time options suck.  Is it not possible to tweak this at runtime?

Yes, I could easily create a sysfs or debugfs mechanism for turning it
on / off at run time.  I would like input on the preferred way to do this.
sysfs or debugfs?


Thanks again for your review on this.  The following is the updated
patch.

--mgross

Signed-off-by: <mgross@...ux.intel.com>



Index: linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1/drivers/pci/intel-iommu.c
===================================================================
--- linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1.orig/drivers/pci/intel-iommu.c	2008-02-26 11:15:46.000000000 -0800
+++ linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1/drivers/pci/intel-iommu.c	2008-02-29 14:36:55.000000000 -0800
@@ -21,6 +21,7 @@
 
 #include <linux/init.h>
 #include <linux/bitmap.h>
+#include <linux/debugfs.h>
 #include <linux/slab.h>
 #include <linux/irq.h>
 #include <linux/interrupt.h>
@@ -30,6 +31,7 @@
 #include <linux/dmar.h>
 #include <linux/dma-mapping.h>
 #include <linux/mempool.h>
+#include <linux/timer.h>
 #include "iova.h"
 #include "intel-iommu.h"
 #include <asm/proto.h> /* force_iommu in this header in x86-64*/
@@ -50,11 +52,32 @@
 
 #define DOMAIN_MAX_ADDR(gaw) ((((u64)1) << gaw) - 1)
 
+
+static void flush_unmaps_timeout(unsigned long data);
+
+DEFINE_TIMER(unmap_timer,  flush_unmaps_timeout, 0, 0);
+
+static struct intel_iommu *g_iommus;
+/* bitmap for indexing intel_iommus */
+static unsigned long 	*g_iommus_to_flush;
+static int g_num_of_iommus;
+
+static DEFINE_SPINLOCK(async_umap_flush_lock);
+static LIST_HEAD(unmaps_to_do);
+
+static int timer_on;
+static long list_size;
+static int high_watermark;
+
+static struct dentry *intel_iommu_debug, *debug;
+
+
 static void domain_remove_dev_info(struct dmar_domain *domain);
 
 static int dmar_disabled;
 static int __initdata dmar_map_gfx = 1;
 static int dmar_forcedac;
+static int intel_iommu_strict;
 
 #define DUMMY_DEVICE_DOMAIN_INFO ((struct device_domain_info *)(-1))
 static DEFINE_SPINLOCK(device_domain_lock);
@@ -73,9 +96,13 @@
 			printk(KERN_INFO
 				"Intel-IOMMU: disable GFX device mapping\n");
 		} else if (!strncmp(str, "forcedac", 8)) {
-			printk (KERN_INFO
+			printk(KERN_INFO
 				"Intel-IOMMU: Forcing DAC for PCI devices\n");
 			dmar_forcedac = 1;
+		} else if (!strncmp(str, "strict", 6)) {
+			printk(KERN_INFO
+				"Intel-IOMMU: disable batched IOTLB flush\n");
+			intel_iommu_strict = 1;
 		}
 
 		str += strcspn(str, ",");
@@ -965,17 +992,13 @@
 		set_bit(0, iommu->domain_ids);
 	return 0;
 }
-
-static struct intel_iommu *alloc_iommu(struct dmar_drhd_unit *drhd)
+static struct intel_iommu *alloc_iommu(struct intel_iommu *iommu,
+					struct dmar_drhd_unit *drhd)
 {
-	struct intel_iommu *iommu;
 	int ret;
 	int map_size;
 	u32 ver;
 
-	iommu = kzalloc(sizeof(*iommu), GFP_KERNEL);
-	if (!iommu)
-		return NULL;
 	iommu->reg = ioremap(drhd->reg_base_addr, PAGE_SIZE_4K);
 	if (!iommu->reg) {
 		printk(KERN_ERR "IOMMU: can't map the region\n");
@@ -1396,7 +1419,7 @@
 	int index;
 
 	while (dev) {
-		for (index = 0; index < cnt; index ++)
+		for (index = 0; index < cnt; index++)
 			if (dev == devices[index])
 				return 1;
 
@@ -1661,7 +1684,7 @@
 	struct dmar_rmrr_unit *rmrr;
 	struct pci_dev *pdev;
 	struct intel_iommu *iommu;
-	int ret, unit = 0;
+	int nlongs, i, ret, unit = 0;
 
 	/*
 	 * for each drhd
@@ -1672,7 +1695,35 @@
 	for_each_drhd_unit(drhd) {
 		if (drhd->ignored)
 			continue;
-		iommu = alloc_iommu(drhd);
+		g_num_of_iommus++;
+		/*
+		 * lock not needed as this is only incremented in the single
+		 * threaded kernel __init code path all other access are read
+		 * only
+		 */
+	}
+
+	nlongs = BITS_TO_LONGS(g_num_of_iommus);
+	g_iommus_to_flush = kzalloc(nlongs * sizeof(unsigned long), GFP_KERNEL);
+	if (!g_iommus_to_flush) {
+		printk(KERN_ERR "Intel-IOMMU: "
+			"Allocating bitmap array failed\n");
+		return -ENOMEM;
+	}
+
+	g_iommus = kzalloc(g_num_of_iommus * sizeof(*iommu), GFP_KERNEL);
+	if (!g_iommus) {
+		kfree(g_iommus_to_flush);
+		ret = -ENOMEM;
+		goto error;
+	}
+
+	i = 0;
+	for_each_drhd_unit(drhd) {
+		if (drhd->ignored)
+			continue;
+		iommu = alloc_iommu(&g_iommus[i], drhd);
+		i++;
 		if (!iommu) {
 			ret = -ENOMEM;
 			goto error;
@@ -1705,7 +1756,6 @@
 	 * endfor
 	 */
 	for_each_rmrr_units(rmrr) {
-		int i;
 		for (i = 0; i < rmrr->devices_cnt; i++) {
 			pdev = rmrr->devices[i];
 			/* some BIOS lists non-exist devices in DMAR table */
@@ -1761,6 +1811,7 @@
 		iommu = drhd->iommu;
 		free_iommu(iommu);
 	}
+	kfree(g_iommus);
 	return ret;
 }
 
@@ -1909,6 +1960,53 @@
 	return 0;
 }
 
+static void flush_unmaps(void)
+{
+	struct iova *node, *n;
+	unsigned long flags;
+	int i;
+
+	spin_lock_irqsave(&async_umap_flush_lock, flags);
+	timer_on = 0;
+
+	/* just flush them all */
+	for (i = 0; i < g_num_of_iommus; i++) {
+		if (test_and_clear_bit(i, g_iommus_to_flush))
+			iommu_flush_iotlb_global(&g_iommus[i], 0);
+	}
+
+	list_for_each_entry_safe(node, n, &unmaps_to_do, list) {
+		/* free iova */
+		list_del(&node->list);
+		__free_iova(&((struct dmar_domain *)node->dmar)->iovad, node);
+
+	}
+	list_size = 0;
+	spin_unlock_irqrestore(&async_umap_flush_lock, flags);
+}
+
+static void flush_unmaps_timeout(unsigned long data)
+{
+	flush_unmaps();
+}
+
+static void add_unmap(struct dmar_domain *dom, struct iova *iova)
+{
+	unsigned long flags;
+
+	spin_lock_irqsave(&async_umap_flush_lock, flags);
+	iova->dmar = dom;
+	list_add(&iova->list, &unmaps_to_do);
+	set_bit((dom->iommu - g_iommus), g_iommus_to_flush);
+
+	if (!timer_on) {
+		mod_timer(&unmap_timer, jiffies + msecs_to_jiffies(10));
+		timer_on = 1;
+	}
+	list_size++;
+	spin_unlock_irqrestore(&async_umap_flush_lock, flags);
+}
+
 static void intel_unmap_single(struct device *dev, dma_addr_t dev_addr,
 	size_t size, int dir)
 {
@@ -1936,13 +2034,21 @@
 	dma_pte_clear_range(domain, start_addr, start_addr + size);
 	/* free page tables */
 	dma_pte_free_pagetable(domain, start_addr, start_addr + size);
-
-	if (iommu_flush_iotlb_psi(domain->iommu, domain->id, start_addr,
-			size >> PAGE_SHIFT_4K, 0))
-		iommu_flush_write_buffer(domain->iommu);
-
-	/* free iova */
-	__free_iova(&domain->iovad, iova);
+	if (intel_iommu_strict) {
+		if (iommu_flush_iotlb_psi(domain->iommu,
+			domain->id, start_addr, size >> PAGE_SHIFT_4K, 0))
+			iommu_flush_write_buffer(domain->iommu);
+		/* free iova */
+		__free_iova(&domain->iovad, iova);
+	} else {
+		add_unmap(domain, iova);
+		/*
+		 * queue up the release of the unmap to save the 1/6th of the
+		 * cpu used up by the iotlb flush operation...
+		 */
+		if (list_size > high_watermark)
+			flush_unmaps();
+	}
 }
 
 static void * intel_alloc_coherent(struct device *hwdev, size_t size,
@@ -2266,6 +2372,10 @@
 	if (dmar_table_init())
 		return 	-ENODEV;
 
+	high_watermark = 250;
+	intel_iommu_debug = debugfs_create_dir("intel_iommu", NULL);
+	debug = debugfs_create_u32("high_watermark", S_IWUGO | S_IRUGO,
+					intel_iommu_debug, &high_watermark);
 	iommu_init_mempool();
 	dmar_init_reserved_ranges();
 
@@ -2281,6 +2391,7 @@
 	printk(KERN_INFO
 	"PCI-DMA: Intel(R) Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O\n");
 
+	init_timer(&unmap_timer);
 	force_iommu = 1;
 	dma_ops = &intel_dma_ops;
 	return 0;
Index: linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1/drivers/pci/iova.h
===================================================================
--- linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1.orig/drivers/pci/iova.h	2008-02-26 11:15:46.000000000 -0800
+++ linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1/drivers/pci/iova.h	2008-02-29 14:11:52.000000000 -0800
@@ -23,6 +23,8 @@
 	struct rb_node	node;
 	unsigned long	pfn_hi; /* IOMMU dish out addr hi */
 	unsigned long	pfn_lo; /* IOMMU dish out addr lo */
+	struct list_head list;
+	void *dmar;
 };
 
 /* holds all the iova translations for a domain */
Index: linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt
===================================================================
--- linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1.orig/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt	2008-02-26 11:16:01.000000000 -0800
+++ linux-2.6.25-rc2-mm1/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt	2008-02-26 13:44:06.000000000 -0800
@@ -830,6 +830,10 @@
 			than 32 bit addressing. The default is to look
 			for translation below 32 bit and if not available
 			then look in the higher range.
+		strict [Default Off]
+			With this option on every unmap_single operation will
+			result in a hardware IOTLB flush operation as opposed
+			to batching them for performance.
 
 	io_delay=	[X86-32,X86-64] I/O delay method
 		0x80
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Powered by blists - more mailing lists