linux-kernel - Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-Id: <200806031611.13817.nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>
Date:	Tue, 3 Jun 2008 16:11:13 +1000
From:	Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@...oo.com.au>
To:	benh@...nel.crashing.org
Cc:	Russell King <rmk+lkml@....linux.org.uk>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>, linux-arch@...r.kernel.org,
	scottwood@...escale.com, linuxppc-dev@...abs.org,
	alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	tpiepho@...escale.com
Subject: Re: MMIO and gcc re-ordering issue

On Tuesday 03 June 2008 14:32, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> > This whole thread also ties in with my posts about mmiowb (which IMO
> > should go away).
> >
> > readl/writel:  strongly ordered wrt one another and other stores
> >                to cacheable RAM, byteswapping
> > __readl/__writel:  not ordered (needs mb/rmb/wmb to order with
> >                    other readl/writel and cacheable operations, or
> >                    io_*mb to order with one another)
> > raw_readl/raw_writel:  strongly ordered, no byteswapping
> > __raw_readl/__raw_writel:  not ordered, no byteswapping
> >
> > then get rid of *relaxed* variants.
>
> In addition, some archs like powerpc also provide readl_be/writel_be as
> being defined as big endian (ie. byteswap on LE archs, no byteswap on BE
> archs).

Sure.


> As of today, powerpc lacks the raw_readl/raw_writel and __readl/__writel
> variants (ie, we only provide fully ordered + byteswap and no ordering +
> no byteswap variants).
>
> If we agree on the above semantics, I'll do a patch providing the
> missing ones.

Let's see what Linus thinks...


> > Linus: on x86, memory operations to wc and wc+ memory are not ordered
> > with one another, or operations to other memory types (ie. load/load
> > and store/store reordering is allowed). Also, as you know, store/load
> > reordering is explicitly allowed as well, which covers all memory
> > types. So perhaps it is not quite true to say readl/writel is strongly
> > ordered by default even on x86. You would have to put in some
> > mfence instructions in them to make it so.
> >
> > So, what *exact* definition are you going to mandate for readl/writel?
> > Anything less than strict ordering then we also need to ensure drivers
> > use the correct barriers (to implement strict ordering, we could either
> > put mfence instructions in, or explicitly disallow readl/writel to be
> > used on wc/wc+ memory).
>
> The ordering guarantees that I provide on powerpc for "ordered" variants
> are:
>
> 	- cacheable store + writel stays ordered (ie, write to some
>           DMA stuff and then a register to trigger the DMA).
>
> 	- readl + cacheable read stays ordered (ie. read some status
>           register, for example, after an interrupt, and then read the
>           resulting data in memory).
>
> 	- any of these ordered vs. spin_lock and spin_unlock (with the
>           exception that stores done before the spin_lock
>           could potentially leak into the lock).
>
> 	- readl is synchronous (ie, makes the CPU think the
>           data was actually used before executing subsequent
>           instructions, thus waits for the data to come back,
>           for example to ensure that a read used to push out
>           post buffers followed by a delay will indeed happen
>           with the right delay).

So your readl can pass an earlier cacheable store or earlier writel?


> We don't provide meaningless ones like writel + cacheable store for
> example. (PCI posting would defeat it anyway).

What do you mean by meaningless? Ordering of writel followed by a
cacheable store  is meaningful eg. for retaining io operations within
locks. OK, you explicitly have some extra code for spin_unlock, but
not for bit locks, mutexes, etc. It would make sense to have the
default operations _very_ strongly ordered IMO, and then move drivers
to be more relaxed when they are verified.
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/