linux-kernel - Re: Re: [RFC] How to handle the rules engine for cgroups

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <1357735.1216048029837.kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>
Date:	Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:07:09 +0900 (JST)
From:	kamezawa.hiroyu@...fujitsu.com
To:	Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@...hat.com>
Cc:	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@...fujitsu.com>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@...hat.com>,
	Paul Menage <menage@...gle.com>,
	linux kernel mailing list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Libcg Devel Mailing List <libcg-devel@...ts.sourceforge.net>,
	Balbir Singh <balbir@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Dhaval Giani <dhaval@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <pzijlstr@...hat.com>,
	Kazunaga Ikeno <k-ikeno@...jp.nec.com>,
	Morton Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Thomas Graf <tgraf@...hat.com>,
	Ulrich Drepper <drepper@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [RFC] How to handle the rules engine for cgroups

----- Original Message -----
>On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 09:55:01AM +0900, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:40:35 -0400
>> Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@...hat.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:48:52AM -0400, Rik van Riel wrote:
>> > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 02:23:52 -0700
>> > > "Paul Menage" <menage@...gle.com> wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > > I don't see the rule-based approach being all that useful for our nee
ds.
>> > > 
>> > > Agreed, there really is no need for a rule-based approach in kernel spa
ce.
>> > > 
>> > > There are basically three different cases:
>> > > 
>> > > 1) daemons get started up in their own process groups, this can
>> > >    be handled by the initscripts
>> > > 
>> > > 2) user sessions (ssh, etc) start in their own process groups,
>> > >    this can be handled by PAM
>> > > 
>> > > 3) users fork processes that should go into special process
>> > >    groups - this could be handled by having a small ruleset
>> > >    in userspace handle things, right before calling exec(),
>> > 
>> > That means application launcher (ex, shell) is aware of the right cgroup
>> > targeted application should go in and then move forked pid to right
>> > cgroup and call exec? Or you had something else in mind?
>> >  
>> > >    it can even be hidden from the application by hooking into
>> > >    the exec() call
>> > > 
>> > 
>> > This means hooking into libc. So libc will parse rules file, determine
>> > the right cgroup, place application there and then call exec?
>> > 
>> 
>> Hmm, as I wrote, the rule that the child inherits its own parent't is very
>> strong rule. (Most of case can be handle by this.) So, what I think of is
>> 
>> 1. support a new command (in libcg.)
>>   - /bin/change_group_exec ..... read to /etc/cgroup/config and move cgroup
>>                                  and call exec.
>> 2. and libc function
>>   - if necessary.
>> 
>> 1. is enough because admin/user can write a wrapper script for their
>> applications if "child inherits parent's" isn't suitable.
>> 
>> no ?
>> 
>
>If admin has decided to group applications and has written the rules for
>it then applications should not know anything about grouping. So I think
>application writing an script for being placed into the right group should
>be out of question. Now how does an admin write a wrapper around existing
>application without breaking anything else.
>
Sure.

>One thing could be creating soft links where admin created alias points
>to wrapper and wrapper inturn invokes the executable. But this will not
>solve the problem if some user decides to invoke the application
>executable directly and not use admin created alias. 
>
yes. It's a hole.

>Did you have something else in mind when it came to creating wrappers
>around applications?
>

I have no strong idea around this but now it seems

 - handling complicated rules under the kernel will got amount of Nacks.
   (and it seems to add some latency.)
 - We cannot avoid the problem discussed here if we handle the rule in 
   userland daemon/process-event-connector.

So, I wonder adding some limitation may make things simple.

  - application under wrapper will be executed under a group defined by admin.
  - application without wrapper will be executed under a group where exec()
    called.

A point is that application-without-wrapper is also under Admin's control beca
use it's executed under a group which calls exec.

But this is not strict control..this is very loose ;)

Thanks,
-Kame

--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/