Date:	Fri, 7 Nov 2008 02:29:21 -0500
From:	"Leonid Grossman" <Leonid.Grossman@...erion.com>
To:	"Zhao, Yu" <yu.zhao@...el.com>,
	"Chris Wright" <chrisw@...s-sol.org>
Cc:	<randy.dunlap@...cle.com>, <grundler@...isc-linux.org>,
	<achiang@...com>, "Matthew Wilcox" <matthew@....cx>,
	"Greg KH" <greg@...ah.com>, <rdreier@...co.com>,
	<linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, <jbarnes@...tuousgeek.org>,
	<virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org>, <kvm@...r.kernel.org>,
	<linux-pci@...r.kernel.org>, <mingo@...e.hu>
Subject: RE: [PATCH 0/16 v6] PCI: Linux kernel SR-IOV support



> -----Original Message-----
> From: virtualization-bounces@...ts.linux-foundation.org
> [mailto:virtualization-bounces@...ts.linux-foundation.org] On Behalf
Of
> Zhao, Yu
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:06 PM
> To: Chris Wright
> Cc: randy.dunlap@...cle.com; grundler@...isc-linux.org;
achiang@...com;
> Matthew Wilcox; Greg KH; rdreier@...co.com;
linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org;
> jbarnes@...tuousgeek.org; virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org;
> kvm@...r.kernel.org; linux-pci@...r.kernel.org; mingo@...e.hu
> Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/16 v6] PCI: Linux kernel SR-IOV support
> 
> Chris Wright wrote:
> > * Greg KH (greg@...ah.com) wrote:
> >> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 10:47:41AM -0700, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> >>> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 08:49:19AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> >>>> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 08:41:53AM -0800, H L wrote:
> >>>>> I have not modified any existing drivers, but instead I threw
> together
> >>>>> a bare-bones module enabling me to make a call to
pci_iov_register()
> >>>>> and then poke at an SR-IOV adapter's /sys entries for which no
> driver
> >>>>> was loaded.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It appears from my perusal thus far that drivers using these new
> >>>>> SR-IOV patches will require modification; i.e. the driver
associated
> >>>>> with the Physical Function (PF) will be required to make the
> >>>>> pci_iov_register() call along with the requisite notify()
function.
> >>>>> Essentially this suggests to me a model for the PF driver to
perform
> >>>>> any "global actions" or setup on behalf of VFs before enabling
them
> >>>>> after which VF drivers could be associated.
> >>>> Where would the VF drivers have to be associated?  On the
"pci_dev"
> >>>> level or on a higher one?
> >>>>
> >>>> Will all drivers that want to bind to a "VF" device need to be
> >>>> rewritten?
> >>> The current model being implemented by my colleagues has separate
> >>> drivers for the PF (aka native) and VF devices.  I don't
personally
> >>> believe this is the correct path, but I'm reserving judgement
until I
> >>> see some code.
> >> Hm, I would like to see that code before we can properly evaluate
this
> >> interface.  Especially as they are all tightly tied together.
> >>
> >>> I don't think we really know what the One True Usage model is for
VF
> >>> devices.  Chris Wright has some ideas, I have some ideas and Yu
Zhao
> has
> >>> some ideas.  I bet there's other people who have other ideas too.
> >> I'd love to hear those ideas.
> >
> > First there's the question of how to represent the VF on the host.
> > Ideally (IMO) this would show up as a normal interface so that
normal
> tools
> > can configure the interface.  This is not exactly how the first
round of
> > patches were designed.
> 
> Whether the VF can show up as a normal interface is decided by VF
> driver. VF is represented by 'pci_dev' at PCI level, so VF driver can
be
> loaded as normal PCI device driver.
> 
> What the software representation (eth, framebuffer, etc.) created by
VF
> driver is not controlled by SR-IOV framework.
> 
> So you definitely can use normal tool to configure the VF if its
driver
> supports that :-)
> 
> >
> > Second there's the question of reserving the BDF on the host such
that
> > we don't have two drivers (one in the host and one in a guest)
trying to
> > drive the same device (an issue that shows up for device assignment
as
> > well as VF assignment).
> 
> If we don't reserve BDF for the device, they can't work neither in the
> host nor the guest.
> 
> Without BDF, we can't access the config space of the device, the
device
> also can't do DMA.
> 
> Did I miss your point?
> 
> >
> > Third there's the question of whether the VF can be used in the host
at
> > all.
> 
> Why can't? My VFs work well in the host as normal PCI devices :-)
> 
> >
> > Fourth there's the question of whether the VF and PF drivers are the
> > same or separate.
> 
> As I mentioned in another email of this thread. We can't predict how
> hardware vendor creates their SR-IOV device. PCI SIG doesn't define
> device specific logics.
> 
> So I think the answer of this question is up to the device driver
> developers. If PF and VF in a SR-IOV device have similar logics, then
> they can combine the driver. Otherwise, e.g., if PF doesn't have real
> functionality at all -- it only has registers to control internal
> resource allocation for VFs, then the drivers should be separate,
right?


Right, this really depends upon the functionality behind a VF. If VF is
done as a subset of netdev interface (for example, a queue pair), then a
split VF/PF driver model and a proprietary communication channel is in
order. 

If each VF is done as a complete netdev interface (like in our 10GbE IOV
controllers), then PF and VF drivers could be the same. Each VF can be
independently driven by such "native" netdev driver; this includes the
ability to run a native driver in a guest in passthru mode. 
A PF driver in a privileged domain doesn't even have to be present.

> 
> >
> > The typical usecase is assigning the VF to the guest directly, so
> > there's only enough functionality in the host side to allocate a VF,
> > configure it, and assign it (and propagate AER).  This is with
separate
> > PF and VF driver.
> >
> > As Anthony mentioned, we are interested in allowing the host to use
the
> > VF.  This could be useful for containers as well as dedicating a VF
(a
> > set of device resources) to a guest w/out passing it through.
> 
> I've considered the container cases, we don't have problem with
running
> VF driver in the host.
> 
> Thanks,
> Yu
> _______________________________________________
> Virtualization mailing list
> Virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualization
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