Message-ID: <4ABA32AF.50602@redhat.com>
Date:	Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:37:35 +0300
From:	Avi Kivity <avi@...hat.com>
To:	Gregory Haskins <gregory.haskins@...il.com>
CC:	"Ira W. Snyder" <iws@...o.caltech.edu>,
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, mingo@...e.hu, linux-mm@...ck.org,
	akpm@...ux-foundation.org, hpa@...or.com,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@...tcorp.com.au>, s.hetze@...ux-ag.com,
	alacrityvm-devel@...ts.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [PATCHv5 3/3] vhost_net: a kernel-level virtio server

On 09/23/2009 05:26 PM, Gregory Haskins wrote:
>
>    
>>> Yes, I'm having to create my own bus model, a-la lguest, virtio-pci, and
>>> virtio-s390. It isn't especially easy. I can steal lots of code from the
>>> lguest bus model, but sometimes it is good to generalize, especially
>>> after the fourth implemention or so. I think this is what GHaskins tried
>>> to do.
>>>
>>>        
>> Yes.  vbus is more finely layered so there is less code duplication.
>>      
> To clarify, Ira was correct in stating this generalizing some of these
> components was one of the goals for the vbus project: IOW vbus finely
> layers and defines what's below virtio, not replaces it.
>
> You can think of a virtio-stack like this:
>
> --------------------------
> | virtio-net
> --------------------------
> | virtio-ring
> --------------------------
> | virtio-bus
> --------------------------
> | ? undefined ?
> --------------------------
>
> IOW: The way I see it, virtio is a device interface model only.  The
> rest of it is filled in by the virtio-transport and some kind of back-end.
>
> So today, we can complete the "? undefined ?" block like this for KVM:
>
> --------------------------
> | virtio-pci
> --------------------------
>               |
> --------------------------
> | kvm.ko
> --------------------------
> | qemu
> --------------------------
> | tuntap
> --------------------------
>
> In this case, kvm.ko and tuntap are providing plumbing, and qemu is
> providing a backend device model (pci-based, etc).
>
> You can, of course, plug a different stack in (such as virtio-lguest,
> virtio-ira, etc) but you are more or less on your own to recreate many
> of the various facilities contained in that stack (such as things
> provided by QEMU, like discovery/hotswap/addressing), as Ira is discovering.
>
> Vbus tries to commoditize more components in the stack (like the bus
> model and backend-device model) so they don't need to be redesigned each
> time we solve this "virtio-transport" problem.  IOW: stop the
> proliferation of the need for pci-bus, lguest-bus, foo-bus underneath
> virtio.  Instead, we can then focus on the value add on top, like the
> models themselves or the simple glue between them.
>
> So now you might have something like
>
> --------------------------
> | virtio-vbus
> --------------------------
> | vbus-proxy
> --------------------------
> | kvm-guest-connector
> --------------------------
>               |
> --------------------------
> | kvm.ko
> --------------------------
> | kvm-host-connector.ko
> --------------------------
> | vbus.ko
> --------------------------
> | virtio-net-backend.ko
> --------------------------
>
> so now we don't need to worry about the bus-model or the device-model
> framework.  We only need to implement the connector, etc.  This is handy
> when you find yourself in an environment that doesn't support PCI (such
> as Ira's rig, or userspace containers), or when you want to add features
> that PCI doesn't have (such as fluid event channels for things like IPC
> services, or priortizable interrupts, etc).
>    

Well, vbus does more, for example it tunnels interrupts instead of 
exposing them 1:1 on the native interface if it exists.  It also pulls 
parts of the device model into the host kernel.

>> The virtio layering was more or less dictated by Xen which doesn't have
>> shared memory (it uses grant references instead).  As a matter of fact
>> lguest, kvm/pci, and kvm/s390 all have shared memory, as you do, so that
>> part is duplicated.  It's probably possible to add a virtio-shmem.ko
>> library that people who do have shared memory can reuse.
>>      
> Note that I do not believe the Xen folk use virtio, so while I can
> appreciate the foresight that went into that particular aspect of the
> design of the virtio model, I am not sure if its a realistic constraint.
>    

Since a virtio goal was to reduce virtual device driver proliferation, 
it was necessary to accommodate Xen.

-- 
error compiling committee.c: too many arguments to function

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