Message-ID: <4D093218.8040707@canonical.com>
Date:	Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:24:40 -0500
From:	Chase Douglas <chase.douglas@...onical.com>
To:	Chris Bagwell <chris@...bagwell.com>
CC:	Henrik Rydberg <rydberg@...omail.se>,
	Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@...il.com>,
	Jiri Kosina <jkosina@...e.cz>, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@...e.de>,
	linux-input@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/2] Input: synaptics - add multitouch packet support

On 12/15/2010 02:14 PM, Chris Bagwell wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Chase Douglas
> <chase.douglas@...onical.com> wrote:
>> On 12/15/2010 09:21 AM, Henrik Rydberg wrote:
>>>> After some testing this is mostly fine,
>>>
>>>  but I have one of those terrible
>>>> "integrated buttons" (or whatever we call it) trackpads. When switching
>>>> to multitouch mode, the cursor will sometimes jump when I go to push the
>>>> button.
>>>>
>>>> Take the following sequence:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Touch in top right corner of pad to position cursor
>>>> 2. Touch in bottom left corner over button
>>>> 3. Press button, but finger moves a little
>>>>
>>>> Step 3 causes the primary coordinates in the synaptics MT protocol to
>>>> flip to the button-pressing touch. This causes a cursor jump. *Many*
>>>> times I have gone to press an "Ok" dialog button and found that I
>>>> accidentally launched an application from my dock :).
>>>
>>>
>>> I see - the behavior of the primary coordinates seems to vary between models,
>>> then. On the other hand, if you point and click with the same finger, one could
>>> possibly go around this problem, even though it means less precision. On my MT
>>> laptop, I can click at the very edge of the pad without the cursor moving.
>>
>> Because of the mechanical properties of my particular touchpad, it's
>> nearly impossible to click without dragging. My touchpad isn't one of
>> the new clickpads where the entire pad hinges. On a clickpad, I would
>> hope depress without movement is easy. On my trackpad, the buttons are
>> somewhat stiff and flex non-uniformly, causing the unwanted movement.
>>
>> So, in Ubuntu we mask out the area of the touchpad where the buttons
>> are. Any movement in that area is discarded. Thus, the only way to be
>> sure of a click is to position with one touch, then lift the touch, then
>> click one of the buttons. Annoying :).
> 
> Is this custom code or in upstream (are you talking about
> inside_active_area logic?)?  I'm not sure why your seeing a jump if
> its being discarded.  There is a chance that something related to this
> discard logic is defeating the other logic that handles jumps caused
> during finger transitions.

In Ubuntu 10.10 I think we are using an in-house patched hack. It was
necessary for an Dell Minis, which was a paid OEM services project, so
we needed a fix ASAP at the time. I believe xf86-input-synaptics has an
option for this now, so we'll probably transition whenever someone gets
a chance to take another look. It may be something that would be handled
better by the upstream logic. When I get a chance I'll try the upstream
logic instead.

>>>> I think we should perform some rudimentary touch tracking to ensure the
>>>> same touch is always used for reporting ABS_X/ABS_Y. A simple distance
>>>> comparison between the two touches, as I implemented in one of my other
>>>> patches, would suffice.
>>>
>>>
>>> One can certainly decide on the "best" coordinates when putting down the second
>>> finger, as we tried for elantech. However, after some movement, when the second
>>> finger is lifted, chances are you get a jump then instead.
>>
>> Chris, isn't this filtered out in xf86-input-synaptics based on the
>> change in the number of touches?
> 
> Yes, in version 1.30 or newer xf86-input-synaptics anyways.  And of
> course the *TAP transition needs to come in same sync window as jump
> for it to be helpful.  It may be able to handle if *TAP comes 1 sync
> window before jump but that would be about the limit.

Ahh! I'm only running 1.22.2, so maybe I should try out the newer
synaptics too.

> Mind sending me a evtest log snippet during
> touch-then-click-with-2nd-finger (with MT mode enabled)?  Seeing those
> tends to be better for understanding then words for me.  I'm
> interested for more then just this specific issue, btw.
> 
> I'm really interested in where the *TAP come (before or after)
> relative to cursor jump and how close it was to being filtered out by
> xf86-input-synaptics.

I'll get this when I get a chance. I'm really crazy backed up with work
right now, and holidays are coming up. I'm supposed to be off for the
rest of the year, but I doubt that will hold perfectly :). So, if I
forget to get you data in the next week or two, feel free to ping me
privately.

>>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>> The general approach we have taken for the kernel is to provide a left button
>>> for both the macbooks and these clickpads, and in addition provide enough
>>> information (read mt data) to solve this problem in userspace. In other words,
>>> one should probably see what additions are needed in the common X drivers to
>>> make the experience a pleasant one.
>>
>> I think we're confusing clickpads and my "integrated buttons" trackpad
>> (I know we settled on a different name, but I can't remember it now :).
>> I believe my issue is purely due to the primary coordinates switching
>> back and forth between two touches as I position and click with two fingers.
> 
> I would think they both have same issue... Just yours may have some
> extra movement and pressure changes compared to the other.

Ok.

Thanks,

-- Chase
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