linux-kernel - Re: [GIT PULL] Native Linux KVM tool for 3.1

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Message-ID: <20110725103817.GA21683@infradead.org>
Date:	Mon, 25 Jul 2011 06:38:17 -0400
From:	Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>
To:	Alexander Graf <agraf@...e.de>
Cc:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>, Pekka Enberg <penberg@...nel.org>,
	Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@....de>, torvalds@...ux-foundation.org,
	avi@...hat.com, akpm@...ux-foundation.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
	gorcunov@...il.com, levinsasha928@...il.com, asias.hejun@...il.com,
	prasadjoshi124@...il.com
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] Native Linux KVM tool for 3.1

On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:14:13AM +0200, Alexander Graf wrote:
> So instead of thinking a bit and trying to realize that there might be a reason people don't want all their user space in the kernel tree you go ahead and start your own crusade of creating a new user space. Great. That's how I always hoped Linux would be :(.

It's not Linux in general yet, it's mostly a crusade of a few with a
political agenda.

> > So i wanted to have a lightweight tool that allows me to test KVM and 
> > tools/kvm/ does that very nicely: i type './kvm run' and i can test a 
> > native bzImage (which has some virtualization options enabled as 
> > well) on the _host_ distro i am running, booting to a text shell 
> > prompt.
> 
> I do that all the time.
> 
>   $ qemu-kvm -nographic -kernel arch/x86/boot/bzImage -append console=ttyS0

Same here.  I can't be bothered with all the stuid distro booting crap.

> > I can do that without downloading any (inevitably outdated) 
> > virtualization images or maintaining my own ones. Maintaining host 
> > userspace is more than enough for me.
> 
> Who would need images? I usually only run -kernel and -initrd directly to test out things. Or if I really want to boot into a real system I do -snapshot /dev/sda.

Indeed.

> 
> > So, since we already have the lguest tool in the kernel tree, why 
> > cannot we have the much more capable tools/kvm/ in the tree?
> 
> Lguest is in Documentation/ for a reason. It's not meant as a user space tool that you take as-is and use. It's meant for documenting how lguest works in general. I admit though, that that's also the reason people don't use it :).

I'd also say it's rather misplaced there, and at least in the storage
area that I know most it didn't help it from totally misunderstanding
kernel concepts and taking them into protocols (e.g. virtio barrier
support).  That for me is a reason why you don't want to couple thing
too tightly, at least you'll have to document and/or explain the
protocol to someone. 
tight

And another argument, calling toyvisor2 "kvm" is a really bad idea.  The
kvm binary has been used for the kvm-patched qemu binary for quite a
while in various distros, so re-using that name will cause utter
confusion.

I'm happy that you guys do another independent userspace for kvm, but
please:

  a) give it a useful name
  b) just develop it where it belongs, your own little git repository
     somewhere
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