linux-kernel - Re: [RFD] Merge task counter into memcg

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Message-ID: <20120418103930.GA1771@cmpxchg.org>
Date:	Wed, 18 Apr 2012 12:39:30 +0200
From:	Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>
To:	KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@...fujitsu.com>
Cc:	Frederic Weisbecker <fweisbec@...il.com>,
	Glauber Costa <glommer@...allels.com>,
	Tejun Heo <tj@...nel.org>, Hugh Dickins <hughd@...gle.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Daniel Walsh <dwalsh@...hat.com>,
	"Daniel P. Berrange" <berrange@...hat.com>,
	Li Zefan <lizf@...fujitsu.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Cgroups <cgroups@...r.kernel.org>,
	Containers <containers@...ts.linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [RFD] Merge task counter into memcg

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 05:42:30PM +0900, KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki wrote:
> (2012/04/18 16:53), Frederic Weisbecker wrote:
> 
> > 2012/4/18 KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@...fujitsu.com>:
> >> (2012/04/18 1:52), Glauber Costa wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>> In short, I don't think it's better to have task-counting and fd-counting in memcg.
> >>>>> It's kmem, but it's more than that, I think.
> >>>>> Please provide subsys like ulimit.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, you think that while kmem would be enough to prevent fork-bombs,
> >>>> it would still make sense to limit in more traditional ways
> >>>> (ie. ulimit style object limits).  Hmmm....
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I personally think this is namespaces business, not cgroups.
> >>> If you have a process namespace, an interface that works to limit the
> >>> number of processes should keep working given the constraints you are
> >>> given.
> >>>
> >>> What doesn't make sense, is to create a *new* interface to limit
> >>> something that doesn't really need to be limited, just because you
> >>> limited a similar resource before.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ok, limitiing forkbomb is unnecessary. ulimit+namespace should work.
> >> What we need is user-id namespace, isn't it ? If we have that, ulimit
> >> works enough fine, no overheads.
> > 
> > I have considered using NR_PROC rlimit on top of user namespaces to
> > fight forkbombs inside a container.
> > ie: one user namespace per container with its own rlimit.
> > 
> > But it doesn't work because we can have multiuser apps running in a
> > single container.
> > 
> 
> Ok, then, requirements is different from ulimit. ok, please forget my words.
> 
> My concern for using 'kmem' is that size of object can be changed, and set up
> may be more complicated than limiting 'number' of tasks.
> It's very architecture dependent....But hmm... 

BECAUSE it is architecture/kernel version/runtime dependent how big a
task really is, limiting available kernel memory is much more
meaningful than limiting a container to a number of units of unknown
and dynamically changing size.

How could this argument ever work IN FAVOR of limiting the number of
tasks?

> If slab accounting can handle task_struct accounting, all you wants can be
> done by it (maybe). And implementation can be duplicated.
> (But another aspect of the problem will be speed of development..)
> 
> One idea is (I'm not sure good or bad)...having following control files.
> 
>  - memory.kmem.task_struct.limit_in_bytes
>  - memory.kmem.task_struct.usage_in_bytes
>  - memory.kmem.task_struct.size_in_bytes   # size of task struct.

A task's memory impact is not just its task_struct.

> At 1st, implement this by accounting task struct(or some) directly.
> Later, if we can, replace the implementation with slab(kmem) cgroup..
> and unify interfaces.....a long way to go.
> 
> 2nd idea is
> 
>  - memory.object.task.limit_in_number	# limit the number of tasks.
>  - memory.object.task.usage_in_number   # usage
> 
> If I'm a user, I prefer #2.

The memory controller is there to partition physical memory.  This is
usually measured in bytes and that's why the user-visible object size
in the memory controller is a byte.  When you add other types of
objects, you force the user to know about them and give them a method
of knowing the object size in bytes, which in case of a task, can vary
at runtime.

I will agree to this interface the moment I can buy RAM whose quantity
is measured in number of tasks.

> Hmm, 
>    global kmem limiting           -> done by bytes.
>    special kernel object limiting -> done by the number of objects.
> 
> is...complicated ?

Yes, and you don't provide any arguments!

What are you trying to do that would make limiting the number of tasks
a useful mechanism?

Why should some kernel objects be special?
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